Proposal: Oomori Seiko Subforum
 

Although EMF is dedicated to Shiina Ringo/Tokyo Jihen, it seems that EMF is the place to be for fans of Oomori Seiko as well (at least in the English-speaking world). In recognition of this, I would like to propose that our fearless leaders create a subforum specifically for discussion of Oomori Seiko.

My reasoning is as follows:

• The existing Oomori threads generate a significant number of new posts.
• Users are joining primarily to discuss Oomori.
• A lot of Ringo fans are also Oomori fans.
• The discussion of Oomori on EMF has, IMO, gone into far more depth than the usual "incidental" talk about unrelated artists.
• The trends above seem only to be on the increase.

What does everyone think?

I don't consider myself an Oomori fan (though I don't mind jumping in on discussions of musicians I know of), and I'm not a long-time member nor can I ensure how long I'll even be active on this site or anything, but it feels... Weird? To inaugurate a subforum for an artist unrelated to Ringo&Jihen when the goal of "Electric Mole Forums" is to provide a place to discuss those artists. (Maybe I'm misunderstanding "subforum," but they're those main topics under the big headers???)

That's just my impression on it, though I guess it ultimately comes down to what the people keeping up this site decide they feel like doing, since it's their time and their money (and actual discussion seems to occur randomly and not necessarily with frequency :hmph: )

I'm just one vote among a few, but I support the idea in general, with one concern, and it's this:

"Users are joining primarily to discuss Oomori."

It would be great to have some clarification on that. When you say "joining" do you mean "participating," like "joining in the discussion"? Or do you mean "new users signing up"?

Also, when you say "primarily," do you mean that new users are interested in BOTH Oomori and Shiina, but primarily want to DISCUSS Oomori? Or do you mean those users have a PRIMARY interest in Oomori but have LITTLE (or maybe no) interest in Shiina?

This point is very interesting:
"A lot of Ringo fans are also Oomori fans."

Knowing more about that will help us all understand the purpose of a subforum dedicated to Oomori. Basically, what is the relationship between Oomori and Shiina? Would you say those two artists have the largest number of crossover fans? Is their music of such similar quality that you can't talk about one without talking about the other? I know they are not "associated" artists, but do they have vital connections nevertheless?

This is all to look ahead at the desired result of an Oomori subforum. Does Oomori, in a major way, enhance our understanding of Shiina? And in turn, does Shiina enhance our understanding of Oomori?

I know this may all sound academic and dull, but since this would be the first-ever subforum dedicated to someone not associated with Shiina, I think they are fair questions.

So let's hear from others. For those interested in Oomori, imagine an Oomori subforum with a sticky thread at the top titled "Why an Oomori subforum?" What would be your post in response?

For the record, I will say that I am here first and foremost as a Shiina Ringo fan. Seeing this post is what set me to thinking.

All of those seem like excellent questions. I'll have to give them some serious thought. I am also really curious to hear what other people think.

not against it though i wont be spending a lot of time there

I'm probably one of the very few if not the only person here who completely doesn't get the Oomori-mania some fellow forum members here seem to have. Nor do I feel my vote in that matter has any importance.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind the subforum, but then again is there a point? I consider EM quite a chill place, not that strictly organized. For the most part people write what they want wherever they want. There aren't that many frequently posting folks either.

Nah, I've got your back, Zordon. I don't get the hype at all. Saying that, if any contemporary artist is thematically and artistically in common with Ringo, and if any artist has as big a following on this forum, it's Seiko.

I think you should give the subforum a trial run, see if it gets any activity, and if it doesn't, merge it back into the Off Topic (Music) board.

Yeah I'm really not sure what to think.

Sure, other than Ringo News 15, the Oomori thread is no doubt the second most active (I'm pretty sure I'm one of the most active, if not the most active poster on EMF currently, on any thread), but then again, like the Ringo News 15 thread, it's really just a few of us- EMF right now is a shadow of what it used to be like- is it enough to justify a sub forum?

I DO like however, that this site is STILL the number 1 spot to talk about either artist right now in English. I certainly don't see any other more dedicated place for Ringo (despite our rather unsavoury reputation with crybabies who can't take criticism elsewhere- I saw a FB page and damn noone has anything bad to say about anything on it), and certainly not for Oomori, unless you count the JPS thread which I don't think really counts seeing as it's a private tracker.

Still, really up to the higher ups. I'm cool with a subforum of course, but again, are there enough people seriously?

Since there are some general notes about the site here as well, I'll throw another question out there: is there a thread from the past that you think represents EMF at its BEST?

Obviously Ringo News 2015 is the current #1 (and the fact that there is such a general thread indicates a rather limited number of participants), but what kinds of threads would you like to see more of, that had the sort of activity you want to see more of on the site?

I don't see why a thread in the Related Artists subforum isn't sufficient...

What threads exactly would be wanted in an Oomori subforum?

For example, Product Info etc... I'm pretty sure it will be yours truly writing most of it up, and I don't know if Im really up for it.

Please, more elaboration

Not a Oormori fan, but I support it. Also, I think updating the theme is also crucial to this site. The current theme looks dated.

I am very opposed to this. I see no similarity between Oomori and Ringo other than Ringo did rock music like forever ago and both are Japanese women. I know similitude is subjective, but I don't see the point of this.

...Then again, there's a lot about this board I don't understand anymore. For example, I've seen people roll their eyes at facebook or tumblr as being new centers of discourse for SR fans, but EMF itself is being reduced to only a few threads of discussion at a time. How is this any different, other than representing a different demographic (teen/20-something women vs. 30-something computer savvy men)? For example, there is a new thread discussing SR's older works while we still have dozens of threads dedicated to the discussion of her individual albums. Even worse, there is only one active topic about all of SR's news, where there used to be multiple threads addressing different new developments in her career. The benefits of using a forum are not being utilized here anymore, but it's not because SR is slowing down. There is a lot she's been doing lately.

That's probably because of the silly way the forum is setup. Only mods can make threads in the News section and that creates confusion of what deserves a thread on the Main Forum for newer users. I hate not having new topics for new news.

I am beginning to be convinced that having a dedicated Oomori subforum, while not *necessarily* a bad thing, probably isn't the best idea either.

While there is still no question in my mind that Oomori has some special significance here, there is real value in having a forum devoted just to Ringo. "Branching out" might serve to dilute EMF's purpose. I hadn't really realized that before, but as a Ringo fan, I don't like the implications.

Yeah, this is quite painful. I understand the mods are busy with their lives, but I would appreciate to see product listings for all releases of late (Coke single, Expo 15, APPLE vinyl, 15th ANNIVERSARY STUFF, SUNNY, A Life Supreme etc etc). It used to blow my mind how comprehensive that Product Index was. Next year I won't be creating a thread like Ringo News 2015 because it seems so messy, and I apologise for what it's become. I didn't intend it to become that, it was just a placeholder thread until different news threads got created.

But yeah. Not mad or anything, just outlines the simple fact that EMF is a different place, and I can understand the loss of passion to create individual threads etc. It's a pain. I'm just suggesting, if there are people who know how and are willing to do it, to pass the torch perhaps. Sure some of the releases are sucky, but I still think they deserve a listing.

I am going to make the embarrassing admission that I didn't know only mods could make threads in News.

I say that knowing that as an "Admin" I should be 100% apprised of all technical issues on the forum, but I have to say I don't know all the issues because 1) I'm not on the technical side of things, and more important, 2) I don't want people to think admins and mods are actively blocking or minimizing threads.

So if users can't make threads in News, but mods can, I propose either we allow users to make threads in News, or make it an easy matter to propose new threads to mods.

I totally agree that threads like "Ringo News 2015" should be broken up into, at the minimum, 4 or 5 (or 8 or 10) different threads.

As an immediate measure, I can do this. Let me know how you'd like the thread to be broken up. Then we can look into how to get the News forum more user-friendly in general.

I agree with the above suggestion to make it easier to post separate news topics--this is one of the few consistently-updated, easily accessible English-language resources for Sheena's work. I also agree with the assertion that an Oomori subforum would A. fall on the shoulders of a few members to maintain, and B. dilute the purpose of this forum as a place for discussion of SR, TJ, and related acts.

Also, since this came up, let me ask a question regarding the following, since I'm responsible for it:
I'm a relatively new member who hasn't touched forums since middle school--my intent was to talk generally about lots of works, but is it preferred/is it forum etiquette to post in pre-existing threads when you've got something to say on that specific topic?

As a side note, let me say that even though the forum could be improved in various ways, I hope most users appreciate, as I do, the differences between this place and other Facebook-y, Tumblr-y kinds of places. There are egos here, but it's not a contest over who can get the most "likes" or who can be the biggest prick on the boards.

There have been times when that has happened, and although the loss of those folks may have reduced our overall post count (by driving away not only those users but their friends----and enemies), I'd rather see the drama and identity politics ("I'm the biggest fan!" "I'm the biggest prick!" "No, I am!" etc.) kept to a minimum, than have a fireworks display that reduces everything down to 3-4 people's extremism.

And this is an ad-free, user-financed site. We don't work for Facebook or Tumblr. (And make no mistake, if you are on Facebook, you work for Facebook. I already work for them enough.)

So in exchange for a less-explosive, less-flashy environment, we get an oasis from click bait and targeted ads. I hope it stays that way.

You know, forums in general kind of died few years ago with the birth of other social media, which definitely represent a different kind of spirit. I used to be a member of some pretty big and active forums and there was this sense of community to them, which I can't see at all in these newer forms of exchanging information. I miss those times.

I sure as hell appreciate EMF for what it is. The forum layout itself takes you back 10 years :P

I'd be fine with a sub-forum inside the Other Music forum, but not "hey guyz this site is now about both Shiina Ringo and Oomori Seiko".

is there a single user here for Seiko exclusively and not Ringo?

As it happens, I'm here primarily to talk about Oomori Seiko. I'd probably agree with others though that there probably isn't enough discussion or participants to warrant a separate Seiko subforum.

This statement intrigues and excites me. It's quite a thrill for someone like me who probably can take at least some of the responsibility for leading the hype train (and I don't mean this to brag or anything) to see people who have discovered and fallen in love with her as much as I have.

I feel she is more important to the current scene than a lot of people are willing to accept. I wonder if this kind of reluctance was the around when Ringo was first rising up. Would be great to be able to see that development first hand like I have the privilege of watching Oomori's rise. I find it quite feasable that she's the most exciting thing, or at least the most interesting thing to talk about happening right now in Japanese music. Unless I've been missing out on someone else just as exciting...

Don''t like the idea as I don't even like any music with acoustic guitar.

I'm guessing you've given a listen to some of the songs she's produced with a band right? Might still not be your cup of tea, but some of her songs have a completely different feel when they are performed with a band vs when they are performed when it is just her with a guitar vs when they are recorded and produced in the studio. Then, the sound can change again depending on the band members, and the producers she is collaborating with, and putting it all together, she is stylistically and feeling-ly pretty darn diverse. :D

And returning to the main topic of the thread, it seems like everybody is in agreement that an Oomori Seiko forum is not needed.