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-   -   English Kronekodow site (http://forums.electricmole.net/showthread.php?t=776)

ringomaster 2008.07.27 05:05 PM

English Kronekodow site
Sorry if this thread's a bit belated, I couldn't find any mention of this elsewhere on the forum. Feel free to delete if a thread's already been made.

You might've seen the new English Kronekodow site here:


I suppose this is great in a way since it means Jihen and Ringo are paying more attention to Western fans and that, but look at this:


Harsh. Linnea's site has already temporarily closed up shop due to the nature of these rules:


I'm not sure what to think right now. One question, are forums such as this subject to these rules? I hope not...

Tokyo Jihad 2008.07.27 05:18 PM

Old news is old.

Did .se close because of this directly or are you blowing smoke?

Shiina's old EMI page had an english site. It likely means zilch to "paying attention to western fans.

ringomaster 2008.07.27 05:29 PM

Nobody's posted about this yet though, not sure why.

Why would I be blowing smoke? I'm just going by what the site said. If it's no big deal then delete the thread.

Inaudible-Whisper 2008.07.27 05:35 PM

The site details were brought up here and here and there was quite some talk about it after. Jonny spoke of the possibility of a .se closure here and finally announced the closure here. They're all recent posts, so please take a look around first before claiming nobody has posted the info and starting your own thread, or try searching.

ringomaster 2008.07.27 05:51 PM

Okay, sorry about that.

Chrissakes though, look at those rules. Are you even allowed to TALK about Ringo?

Tokyo Jihad 2008.07.27 06:19 PM

No you're not.

Thread closed.

TeslaGuy 2008.07.27 07:46 PM

You can talk about her as long as you do not attempt to imitate her voice.

Glathannus 2008.07.27 08:41 PM

While this may be 'old' news, I think this issue warrants its own thread, whether or not the opening post of this thread happens to be presented as "breaking news". ShiinaRingo.SE being taken down is no mere "Random Thread" affair. It's very serious business, that a lot of casual members are bound to overlook in Off-Topic.

I know Japan is very strict on protecting their celebrities, but "portrait rights" go a little further than I suspect most other countries would ever enforce. If EMF is ever 'legally' threatened, there are some steps we can take to cover our asses, without anywhere near crippling this site. Here's how it would play out:

1.) We strip down the current banner, and all Ringo/Jihen avatars. It's painful, but we can't segregate visitors into different camps of people who could or couldn't view those particular placements of images.

2.) All other images breaching copyright, remain on the site solely as Attachments.

3.) Before you can view the images, you must register for this site, and before you can register, you agree to a disclaimer exempting this site, its hosting company, and its staff, of any liability.

4.) Posted lyrics go into special 'spoiler' style quote boxes that can only be unveiled to registered members.

I don't think completely concealing all the subforums and user profiles from guests, is a great idea. You search the web for niche things like "Heart Bazaar", and our site here comes up as #2, right after Wikipedia. We'll lose that kind of established status if we make all threads and posts viewable to "Members Only". The only benefit to hiding everything, is that members could keep copyrighted Ringo/Jihen avatars.

This topic doesn't have to be exclusively about the fate of ShiinaRingo.SE or about the fate Electric Mole Forums - they're both major landmarks among English-speaking fans. I think EMF stands more of a 'chance' for survival than ShiinaRingo.SE solely because we don't have to be 100% viewable/open to guests, while a setup like ShiinaRingo.SE has no means to regulate that. Our "Images" board already mostly covers our own asses, with the majority of material there being in Attachment form, but that's only half the battle if we don't have a custom disclaimer with our user registrations.

A last resort would be to block most/all of Japan from being able to view this site. Everyone else would be able to carry on with business as usual, but our real members natively from Japan or visiting Japan from the west, would have to go through some funky mirror site with an additional pop-up login.

Sooner or later we may have to change something about EMF. And if we hardly know the specifics of our own legal rights, I don't entirely blame Jonny and Lineea for wanting to close down ShiinaRingo.SE before they could get legally warned, instead of after. It seems cowardly, but I'd be scared too. Not so much afraid of being personally sued/prosecuted, but fearful of the webhosting company taking the legal threats from Japan, more seriously than those threats actually are. Webhosting companies are totally chickenshit when it comes to copyright allegations - they'll treat a webmaster as guilty until proven innocent whenever there's an accusation, just like YouTube treats its uploaders. If a Japanese record label reports you, many webhosting companies won't care whether or not their/your country respects Japanese law - they just take your site down immediately, then ask the question later of "Can you prove you have the rights to this content?". And of course, you can't prove it, so now you're in the hole for the 1+ year of webhosting you've already paid for. Most webhosting companies don't know international law very well, and they don't care to know. It's cheaper for them to blow you off as a potential customer, than for them to maintain a larger legal department that can make more informed decisions.

natsume 2008.07.27 11:44 PM

Does anybody with a decent grasp of Japanese know if these rules are a translation of something that had already existed on the Japanese Kronekodow site? There are not a ton of Japanese Shiina fansites, right?

I had never heard of portrait rights, as distinct from copyrights, before.

Anyway, a very unwelcome, corporate development.

(My avatar is UA. I don't think her people will be coming after us anytime soon.)

Ringo~Bingo 2008.07.28 01:25 AM

i think having to close down sites becaus of these threats is harsh.. it's not like anyone is making a cent out of this.. we use her images and stuff in appreciation not for profit i think that they are far too over zealous with this.

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