What they're saying about us! The exclusive report!
 

Ever wonder what is said about Shiina/Jihen outside of this gated community? There's some interesting tidbits!

D'oh what was that now?

The man's got a good point. I agree. Rep ++

Well now, I see nothing wrong with this behavior. :ph43r: =P

:waa:

:wakka: Who would think such things like we couldnt?!

This is particularly interesting because around these parts, this idea was supposedly the minority. More proof that the anti-heroes are that 1337. :D

So there you have it. Just a little somethin-somethin that drifted my way. Thought it would be interesting to share. How else could we know were an annoying pretentious bunch?
well...i guess we already sorta arrived that that really.... >_<

Thank goodness for all the variety that TJ and Ringo have afforded us that we can even have such an active place to be all "pretentious" and "mindless".

What? Who exactly is saying this? Source? Hahaha...

A certain japanese music forum. I won't link it (to protect the innocent), but it wont be impossible to find, i don't think.

Oh, wow. I thought this was like quotes you gathered from talking with people on aim. I didn't expect another forum to actually be bad-mouthing us.

I don't come here too often so I think I can assume I'm not too pretentious and annoying.

That made me laugh :P :

I actually saw no jpop artist whose fans are more inclined to criticism.

I would go to that community and set the record straight, but anything I could say (no matter how journalistic) would get defeated by unspoken prejudice, based on the infant postcount I'd have over there.

I don't think there really is a "majority" of any demographic amongst our fanbase in this community. There's a lot of lovers, dissenters, and moderates, and I think it's all evenly divided (in terms of people - but not in terms of posts)

Outsiders come to their conclusions about this community, (unknowingly) based on the following circumstances:

1.) Even if the dissenters don't make up a majority, they have pretty big fucking mouths, and whether or not what they're saying is actually right, their words are going to get the most noticed, not just because it pierces peoples' comfort level and makes an impression, but mainly because, let's face it - the dissenters have spent more time arguing (or re-arguing) their side, than anybody else. The overwhelming presence of undispelled disapproval from a select few, shapes an atmosphere that gives off the vibes of "Shiina Ringo's foreign fanbase in general has gone batshit crazy".

2.) Perspective of others, is based on your own bias. If your political leanings are far-right, then anyone who is a moderate, is "basically the same" as far-left to you. My correlation to this example is you have these fans outside Electric Mole who think there are no qualities we lost with Hirama, and we'll (for the sake of argument) call these people "far-Uki" (a few of them seem to be moderates - but of course the ones with the biggest mouths over there are "far-Uki" and those are the comments we're talking about here). This bias creates the perception that two-thirds of our memberbase is "far-Hirama", because let's face it, one third really is "far-Hirama", and the other third is moderate. There seem to be "center-Hirama"s here and "center-Uki"s in this other community, but I'm just mentally throwing half of them into "moderate" and the other half into "far-this" or "far-that" so this touchy feeling 'math' doesn't get more complicated than it has to be for the point I'm trying to illustrate.

3.) During the (increasingly) rare occassion when a moderate actually speaks up in the middle of a debate, and tries to talk about how both sides are great, it is all-too-easy for advocates of either side to branch off of what the moderate said, to 'prove' their own side, and then the moderates stop speaking up because they're viewed as either an enemy or ally by someone of a certain side - based on which side was most successful in conjuring up their own context out of that moderate's words, and then it's mostly the lovers versus the haters, with the haters having much larger postcounts in Electric Mole for the same amount of people. The few moderates who never give up on advocacy, continue to be outspoken in this community, and then like some electoral college based on total posts, the haters got the most, and winner takes all, so the 'vote' of the moderates goes to the haters, as far as these outsiders are subconsciously concerned.

4.) These people talking trash about Electric Mole, apparently haven't taken a look at The Principles of this Community, and they probably should. I'm glad that at least some of the folks making those comments, are actually posting here nowadays, even if I think they're just as crazy (but in a different way) as they probably think I am. Electric Mole was started up so all sides could express themselves freely, not so the tables could get turned in favor of the oppressed veteran haters. It's equal opportunity here, so if people aren't taking their opportunity and if there's an imbalance in posts because of that, at least it isn't being caused by staff intervention.

I think it's unproductive to criticize our memberbase from afar. If these people call themselves Shiina Ringo or Tokyo Jihen fans and they like to discuss those topics in messageboard(s), they should be here instead (and as I understand it - a significant portion of them already are here), arguing their case, and/or getting to know other people who share their priorities. What would they have to lose? It's not like if they succeeded in telling off the "majority", that their post(s) would get deleted. Different perspectives, gives this community more to talk about, and that's always been more ideal to me than everyone being a lover or everyone being a hater.

I don't think any other fanbase is as mixed as this one. This needs to be regarded as an intellectual opportunity instead of as a problem.

See, over there I am "every body" whereas here I'm a "big fuckin' mouth."
I get no respect, I tell ya =(

Wow, what an informed opinion. *snerk*

Haha, one of those quotes was from me.

Hey lurkers and cowards, participate!

theres no need to bad mouth EMF on another forum. We love reading that stuff here. Bring it.

Lol. Yea say it to our faces ^_^

You said the thing about "so many" EMF members liking Hirama over Uki, right? Yeah, it really is a HUGE majority. 9_9 Maybe like 5 people who are just very vocal about it. The rest of us either don't care/have a preference or they like Uki, as you do. hoooonestly.

^ Yeah, well, you know the anti-heroes are so awesome that the four of us combine to equal the opinion of 500 normal forum members. It's just a fact that we kick that much ass. [/ego]

I find it dastardly funny that people bitch about us on other forums. :D

Yea, its crazy that more than one person would talk about this forum like that. I've never heard of something like this before.

And there is no need for ego, guys, anyone who says anything against what is expected is going to stand out like a black sheep whether they are awesome or not. :whacko:

^ Back when I was modding/a member of Project J, we had a bit of a consistent feud with the J-fan forums. They thought they were better than us, but we had Sam Pearson, guitar virtuoso Rustin Hiatt, and Dasr in our ranks so we were naturally better. :lol:

I think its pretty apparent we are awesome, so be thankful we speak for everyone ;)

Or the always looked over faction of people that just don't post anymore because of Uki/nu-Shiina...lets not make it seem..

Larry/papa-pantsu is the freackin' man even if he did like Yayoshi more than Hirama.

we are officially the perez hilton of the forum world, people love to hate on us but it doesn't change the fact that out of the entire english-speaking fanbase, we have the most helpful and resourceful members collected, more here than anywhere else

which is why regardless of how much silly bickering we do, it is still like a famillllyyyyy aawwwwwwwww that even means jihad, yes jihad, I love you like my half retarded whore of a cousin from texas shanialafawnia, awwwww ;;hugs;;

...Shanialafawnia? XD

And it's true, we gots the info~ what nowww!

Ha! My sentiments exactly. :D

what sad ass little bitches would lurk in this forum, realize he/she/it don't fit with the crowd here, goes to another forum and whine about it? </blowshitoutofcontextrant>

Of coz' the whining from another forum proves that people do come here as a source for good TJ/JR info.

lol @ people feeling too threatened to voice their opinions on the internet about forum members of this forum and having to do it elsewhere for fear of e-lashbacks. Thank you for letting the confrontational people rule the world.

And to think, if they just put Tokyo Jihad on ignore there'd be no basis for their arguments.

Jeez, put things into perspective! Out of a topic that has 76 posts (this is on the other site), comments about this board are brought up only on the second page and perhaps only a total of 3-4 replies actually refer to this board - the rest is all about Shiina/TJ. Way to blow things out of proportion!

Sorry to pop all of your egos, but I really don't think people on other board care about this forum at all.

Nebularus is from there confirmed =P

I'll be 'pretentious' and declare that the majority of posts in that thread spawned from folks who haven't yet thought to search for a specialized Shiina Ringo or Tokyo Jihen community. And that's a scenario I'm somewhat okay with. What I'm not okay with, is any of those folks (who didn't spawn the 3-4 posts) getting the idea that maybe they shouldn't search for a specialized community, in-case they ever got the idea later. I mean, they could search now, because of those comments, but if they do so under the pretense of checking out the "Neo Ringo/Jihen hating" claims, it won't take a lot of browsing within Electric Mole for the prospective newbie to 'verify' those claims, then overlook everything else being said here, and make up their mind never to come here again except maybe for news, but wait...

They'd actually have to dig for news (amidst Ukigumo bashing that they could Ignore) in order to find it. Awww schucks!

As for my earlier post here, I was referring to more comments than just the ones about Electric Mole, not to blow things out of proportion, but to kind of elude to (and I didn't think I'd ever have to spell this out for anybody) that they can bash Electric Mole's "pro-Hirama-ism" comfortably when nobody in that thread has stated that they prefer Hirama over Ukigumo. Everyone there is either neutral, or (seemingly more often) pro-Ukigumo.

In fact the guitar discussion is how people were able to branch off into (to very loosely paraphrase) "You'd be surprised that there's this community of folks (many of them at least borderline psycho) who totally disagree with us all", which spawned more semi-ontopic discussion along the lines of "Well I don't know how that could be so, because Ukigumo is obviously the better (or at least more appropriate) guitarist". The Electric Mole bashing and general Phase 2 loving, connected together (at the later part of the thread) almost like a checkered* patchwork quilt.

*:Note that not all checkers (especially on fabric) have to feature opposite colors.

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

BAD MAOU! BAD! ;;sprays with water;;

you and your lyrics :lol::lol:

You win

Hey guys, has Nebularus made a post conducive to forum discussion yet?!

^ No.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Too bad that these comments are nothing but dull weapon against a confident mind.

Those aren't the only things people are saying. I have seen a lot of postive quotes out there about us. about how smart we are and they think we're kinda superior in our love and knowledge.
it's funny to see the negative stuff tho...haha

Where do you see this kinda stuff? That's so odd, people hating/loving this forum on another board.

Surely, they're talking about us talking about them talking about us now. Its a toilet flush that never subsides.

IT'S A THIN LINE BETWEEN LOVE AND HATE
(REPEAT)
THE SWEETEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD
COULD BE THE MEANEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD
IF YOU MAKE HER THAT WAY
YOU KEEP HURTING HER
SHE'LL KEEP BEING QUIET
SHE MIGHT BE HOLDING SOMETHING INSIDE
THAT'LL REALLY, REALLY HURT YOU ONE DAY

^I bet plenty of them are men too...
is that what you mean??!!


^I like that one. haha.

New fans have a certain enthusiasm that the old fans lack. We need some of that.

I don't see why the source of the quotes is some sort of secret. It's from Keikaku.

If you want to see enthusiasm for Tokyo Jihen's new work, check out this thread on I Love Music. Only a few posts are my own.

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelec...threadid=39358

Probably because Keikaku is well known for being the ass of all Japanese forums with the most elitist and annoying members on the planet?

You know, to imply theres less enthusiasm here just because some of it is negative is really off-base. The fact that some of us are so vocal means that there is some charge to do so. Theres plenty of music I dislike i dont spend a lick of time talking crap about.

Fan-dom is a two-way street guys. Have you guys REALLY never seen an onslaught of "doomsday posts" in response to a new album?? Its been the status quo at nearly EVERY other fan forum ive been to.

I laughed.
We all know it sounds light years better than Kyouiku.

(I'm talking purely about sound quality only.)

EDIT: On a different note, some of the stuff at Keikaku is really... urm... read it yourself.

It's just sad that a lot of the people who do like the new music are less vocal about it. But it seems that it is starting to change a bit ^__^

Maybe because it doesn't pierce their hearts so much like the good old days of Princess Ringo.

Um, not really. Do you prefer the terrible-music-loving JPop Music forum?

Oh, no. Definitely not, my friend. I don't like forums that cater to the VK crowds. I actually like a lot of the people involved with Keikoku since I knew them from Project J. However, that doesn't change the fact that they're elitist bastids. :)

I actually don't know any other Japanese music forums other than Jpopsuki and JPop Music. So, Project J? I'll check it out....

I guess I'm elitist then since I occasionally write for Keikaku?

Project J died a couple of years ago.

I doubt that's the case since I'm pretty sure some of the newer members have said that they like later Ringo or TJ more than the " " Princess Ringo " ".

Hahah, I post on Jpopmusic.com forums, but only in the "Other Artists Forum" (which is lame that all these other artists are relegated to "other" whereas the 'big names' like Utada and Momusu are the ones to get their own forums for people to squee in) to gather single/album news on the other artists on my site besides Ringo.

But some of the people in the Rie fu thread recently have been kind of attacking me for daring to say things like, the thread title should have the correct single titles in it (and not just the first romanization someone--who as it turns out DOESN'T EVEN STUDY JAPANESE--pops out, which is almost always wrong). Yeah, how dare I tell someone they should know Japanese before they report a single's title or even translation.
(You know, me... the SOLE TRANSLATOR of Rie's lyrics online. Or at least, the only person who bothers to keep their Rie site up to date and with ALL lyrics translated. Not that I'm saying I should be treated like some goddess for that, many of those people may not even care to read translations, but I'm a real, contributing member to the small Rie online fandom, and it really sucked to get burned like that by people who shouldn't have been biting the hand that feeds them.)

Like, anyone remember the whole Jpopsuki Sakuran/Fence Viewing thing? That kind of insanity. Yeah, how dare I tell people not to use Altavista to get translations of shit that they're then going to spread to others. HEAVEN FORBID the Internet have correct information on it!!! *eyeroll*

Most of you who know me are probably thinking "She came off too arrogant/officious about it" but the hilariously ironic thing is that I knew that could happen and so instead tried SO hard to act humble and polite about the request. And what happened? People jumped all over me like I had been outright rude anyway. so wtf -_-

...Also, you know, this thread should have been moved to Offtopic a long time ago. *moves*

Listen FreckleGirl, you. If I want to post .ass sub files of the entire first season of Mach Go Go Go that I painstakingly translated for over 9000 hours in MS Paint and babelfish, who are you to say that I don't have a right to post it just cause I'm not aZn liek u!? Not everyone gets to be born with beautiful slanted eyes and a petit figure!!

I am on that thread. I usually float my opinions to that thread first, because if I post them here, I have to be more prepared to make a case for them (to the extent they are the sort of opinions about which a case can be made--and a lot of this stuff is purely subjective, imo). Milton posts here from time to time. I will have something more to say about the new album in a little while, but I definitely like it.

EMF unfortunately doesn't cater to people who are happy without a reason. It's your responsibility to find a reason more than it's EMF's responsibility to tell you only what you want to hear.

Another blogger...

Some other messageboard:

[soulsearching]This is going to seem off-topic, but recently I was thinking about Pirate Bay, because there is ongoing news about their court proceedings. For years I've been trying to ignore Pirate Bay, mainly because no membership is required, and that makes it too easy for the proper authorities to get in on the same torrent as you, and catch you in the act. But the secondary reason I've had for avoiding the place, is that Pirate Bay comes across to me as one grand clusterfuck with no elimination or segregation of the dirt, no quality control, and an atmosphere that gives off vibes of b-tards who graduated from middle school and moved on to high school. I've held the suspicion that the people who run Pirate Bay couldn't possibly be much more mature than that, if they allow their atmosphere to end up the way it has been.

After noticing how the administration of Pirate Bay have conducted themselves in court, my opinion has changed. These guys are surprisingly mature and selfless, and aren't so nerdy to the degree that they couldn't have a life if they wanted one. Then it occurred to me that *I* value freedom enough not to sanitize it, and the Pirate Bay founders probably feel the same way. Then it also occurred to me that my secondary reasons for hating Pirate Bay are not unlike many peoples' reasons for hating EMF. So for anti-hypocritical sake, I should either start despising EMF, or stop despising Pirate Bay. That's an easy choice for me to make because the founders of Pirate Bay are very respectable people without trying to be.[/soulsearching]

I hope the disgruntled Shiina Ringo fans have fun living off in their own little bubble, because they don't entirely know what they are missing. Among the people who do choose to stick around, I'm having a hard time finding any other group of people on the internet with another common interest, who spill their guts out, and who help each other out more. I've done shipping favors for little or no profit to... 5 EMFers so far. 2 EMFers have shipped things off to me, and none of them are the 5 people I've sent things to. Shipping favors have somewhat flowed around in a circle. Beyond that, some users have donated to EMF in the name of other users, and just about anything you ever wanted to know about anything, has been answered by somebody who actually relates with their own insight rather than merely citing Google or Wikipedia to appear smarter than they really are.

Maybe EMF being such a 'scary' or 'disturbing' place, makes its few active members that much closer to each other. We're all 'comrads' in a greater sense than we would be if this were a more heavily-moderated or kawaii fan community. We're the 'survivors' who "endure(d) the hardship". The people who only want to deal with what's easy or intellectually comfy, well... they usually keep their distance or crawl back into their shell. If that's what blogging is for, maybe that has something to do with why I haven't blogged ever since EMF was started.

To the first quote: Yeah, it's awesome when whatever we say is the last word because we are right and only our opinion matters to us. I wonder why it should matter to other people tho. Maybe a private personal blog, which only the author reads, is what that guy was talking about.

To the second quote: EFFING HILARIOUS! =D
That's the kind of embarassing fanboyish comments I'm glad don't make part of this community.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with what you said Glath. This is actually the only forums I participate in actively, because I like the kind of people who hang around here. Only thing that "effing" pisses me off is when the usual argument about Variety Haters vs Variety Lovers come around. And when people say there are member wars in every single thread.

This is the fucking reason why I stuck around with the forums, we express our opinions. The Variety wars is the very essence of the forums, a difference of opinions.

I don't need this forum to turn into some random J-POP lovefest where all members do is praise their object of infatuation.

And the praise of the "Blog"! Where all you do is show how "special" you are and stroke your own ego...ridiculous.

I think Fluffie is the perfect example of how accepting the boards are of other opinions if folks don't take things too seriously and learn when to not bite back if somebody makes a, to you, inappropriate immature joke. Pretty much everybody here loves Fluffie and everybody knows his love for Uki and Variety. Nobody holds it against him and arguments don't get nasty between him and other members.

If all you want to do is express your opinion on a blog and pretend it must be right because you have nobody to fight you back, then that's fine. But that isn't the point of a forum at all, and you can't hold discussion and opinion/personality clashes against a place that is designed for the sharing of opinions. Obviously it isn't a case of anything goes, and totally inappropriate members are dealt with, but for the most part it's a pretty darn friendly place once you settle in aside from a few touchy topics which certainly don't define the place.

ViVa La EMF!

:wub:

EFF this ESS. EFF this forum to H-E-double hockey sticks. EFF you all, I'm EFFING leaving. XD

Maybe that is why EMF is such a "scary" place. Even when we don't particularly like each other, we are still a very tight group. We have our own ways and customs and that can be imposing to outsiders. But I think EMFers like Shinji and Bongo have shown you didn't have to join up in 05 to be a member, and fluffie and Neko show you don't have to hate Uki/Variety
(as incorrect as the opnion may be ;) =p)
but the net is full of sycophants insecure with opinions of their own that tey need that reassurance, so what have you.

In closing. EFF!

I think we scared them away because we have come to realise that we are allowed to say 'Fuck' on the internet.

I sometimes wonder if the core members of EMF are so tight that it intimidates new members to participate in the first place. We've hardly seen newer, regular members apart from Shinji, Bongo and Tesla (from my memory at least).

Anyway, I invite Blogger "EFF" to participate more actively in our discussions/arguments, since we at EMF clearly like passionate people like that.

Yeah and those 3 should show how it is entirely possible to fit in without feeling intimidated if folks actually try instead of running off at the first sight of "Variety sucks", spreading the word about how evil and Shiina-hating we all are.

We hate SR because we love(d) her.

Love-hate relationship people! Is it so hard to understand?

If people are so weak and insecure about facing any sign of argument then I say it's best that they don't bother here! if all they really wanna do is spew a load of non-criticizing fanboy crap on a blog where they don't have to defend their points then leave them to it! Shiina's not a holy untouchable Goddess where the mere thought of disagreeing with some of her output is a blasphemy by which the punishment is death (though the lovefest of other sites/forums would give you that impression)

These people are scared away because we have actual opinions instead of the one way propaganda that pretends to be opinion elsewhere! that's why they bitch about it on blogs instead of facing us directly here.

EMF forever!!!:hmph:

Unity!

Sht, if only we can conduct a raid and skin those bastards alive!

Let's burn the witch! We don't like different people! :angry:

Btw, there are some newer good members, like Scribble and Grumble, who actively post and aren't afraid of, gasp!, discussions. And I'm sure there are more people that would find EMF a good place. They just need to find it first =P

Maybe it has to do with self-esteem. Maybe people like these are people with issues with self-esteem that if they like an artist or a song, to hear a criticism causes them to question themself. Maybe that's why some take it so personally.

The thing is people like Shiina are artists, entertainers, crafts-people. People truly devoted to their craft want to improve, always. Good criticism helps artists out (should they care to heed it.) I believe Shiina to be a serious artist who does want to improve. The sticking point with some fans is that "explore something new" does not = "improve." Trying a new approach is great, but it's not an excuse to not improve. I want to entertain, so I *LOVE* constructive criticism, espescially from people who liked my previous works -- thats who I want to pay attention to. Some friends of mine always say they like whatever, or feign a laugh, and I don't care about that. I really want to know what works not just "oh thats good."

If I were Shiina I'd be psyched to have a community like us...and maybe not so psyched about what i'd read -- but not in the way cry-babies out there think.

shame on the first quotee.

edit: EFF!!

eff those effing effers. EFF.

The main reason I continue to be an active member is because I've found EM to be a welcoming community. Despite the fact that the majority of us have been here much longer than I, I've never felt that my opinions have been considered as less valid. To the contrary, I feel my input has been appreciated, and even encouraged.

Compared to other Japanese music forums where I have participated, EM exists on a unique, higher plane. This is a rich, vibrant community of intelligent people who engage in interesting discussions on a large number of topics that are actually worth talking about. At another forum where I am a member, most threads have titles like "Count to 2000" or "What Did You Eat Today."

Concerning the lively exchanges about the quality of various albums that occur here, they are the main reason that EM isn't some vacuous shrine. Any artist with an output as varied as Ringo's will inevitably have albums that appeal to some people more than others. And if her fans enjoy debating their relative merit, big fucking deal.

Hahaha, I can't even understand what Mr Eff is even talking about. When did we ever discuss what goes on in Ringo's panties and how that relates to her music???

also loving all the mockery of his post in this thread! EFF!!

The only person I can think of is ringomaster. He often made sexual jokes, I remember one or two getting a particular response but I can't remember if it was about ringo's panties. Either way, it's not like the community had a laugh with him; literally everybody attacked him for it and he was dealt with accordingly.

EMF is a fansite i've come across with serious arguments (complete with rationale & detailed explanations, needless to say e criticisms) like none others...i take it on the positive side....make the reads interesting buy yea it probably
intimidates the newbies (at times)...

That's exactly what I remember Sports sounding like. From the date I think he or she is talking about Variety, but whatever.

I do wonder if this forum is coming up more on searches for recent TJ material and since I'm not even into Phase 1 as much as the solo albums I'm feeling quite out of place. Hirama > Uki, but I can't be bothered to post why.

I've kind of semi- moved on now, or maybe there's only so many thousand times I can listen to the same thing. But I always used to want to have read more of what fans of MM/SS/KZK thought about those albums. Or the demos, B-sides, Tomosaka Rie...

I can't remember how I found this place, maybe a link from Nostalgic Lavender. Is there anything that could be done to make those fans feel at home? Especially at first I felt this was a ... "Tokyo Jihen" forum and only partly a Shiina Ringo one, perhaps because of the images at the top, and perhaps because the new material is what 99% of the posts are about.

That's kind of what I've always thought about EMF, really.

Or perhaps most people who discover SR are preexisting J-pop or J-rock fans (whatever floats your boat, I don't mind), and aren't as alienated from the musical direction of TJ as I am?

As time goes on, it's going to get harder and harder to discover "Shiina Ringo" just on her own, though I have a feeling there will always be interest in her solo work in Japan and she will continue to pursue it in sometimes interesting (Sakuran) and not-so-interesting (Sanmon Gossip) ways.

But the trajectory of what can be called Shiina Ringo's career is getting tangled up in Tokyo Jihen to the point where I'm not even sure where one ends and the other begins. I just posted a thought that maybe Dynamite Out! and just about all of "Phase 1" Tokyo Jihen should be considered part of Shiina's solo career, and that Phase 1 TJ really begins in 2005 with Domestic Virgin Line and Just Can't Help It.

This is going to sound random, and you've been a fan for a lot longer than me and may understand, but there's kind of an aura to the first three album eras that doesn't for the most part extend beyond EM, but maybe to things to Kurumaya-san. Sort of a persona as manifested through music (like say, the strings in Yami ni Furu Ame, how the chorus to Kuki sounds, or the decision to thread something clockwork through Poltergeist), and it's really moving...

FWIW having seen a couple of other posts, I don't think being more playful, dancing or wearing cat ears is necessarily antithetical, because doesn't... say, Mayonaka's melody sound "playful"? (Not seen DVL other than I quite like the Keshou Naoshi on YT but really hate that Gunjou, sorry, that guitar's rhythm/tone just excites my gag reflex, Hirama is the funkier of the two). I actually think the visual aspect of JCHI sheds a good light on Adult, it sweetens the album like it sweetens plain tea, because take away the artfulness and costumes from a song like Yukiguni and it's a lot less amazing, it's like an Andrew Lloyd Webber tune basically. That's not to say there aren't some nice tunes on Kyoiku or Adult, and IMO the Phase 1-ers are right to say that era sounded like more of a beginning than an end.

If I was proselytising it's because my listening brain can't understand why songs like Kabukichou no Joou are more famous outside of Japan, or her solo-era diversity and videos don't reach more people, other than particularly English-speaking people don't try music in a foriegn language in the same way they try films in a foriegn language, unless they're carefully selected for a "world music" market. They fit the bill of a classic melody and judging by the demos, SR used to write songs that strong as a natural talent. Someone else writing the music doesn't explain why Variety or Sports suddenly sound like what they do or why SR in 2006/7 suddenly decided that that was the kind of music she wanted to put out. I'm never going to "get" that, and I need to stop trying to.

Sanmon Gossip rewarded a little pre-release excitement though. :)

It appears to me that outside EMF, Sanmon Gossip gets a lot more flack than post-Adult TJ does (Oh, and not necessarily on the basis that it's not as good as the first three solo albums)