Favourite Color Bars Song
 

So, what is your favourite?

I went with Konya wa Karasawagi.

TBH, after listening to it for a while now, it's more and more becoming Konya wa Karasawagi maxi-single (I mean, Konya wa Karasawagi + 4 bsides) rather than mini-album feeling.

The only one I like is "sa__i__ta", but I would have picked "Kai-Horrordust" just to mess with everyone if the votes were hidden. :wakka:

I prefer Horrordust to saita :hmph:

All three mentioned so far are great songs.

sa_i_ta for sure, I even think it should've been the first single instead of Konya wa Karasawagi (which I really like but I feel it's a bit too "Jihen-by-numbers)

I chose sa_i_ta even though I also like horrordust about the same, because I feel like sa_i_ita is the best picture of what the new sound of tokyo jihen would've been if they kept going. horrordust fits into that sound but sa_i_ta is kind of full embodiment of it, or something? (although I do feel bad that horrordust doesn't have any votes)
I like that idea of sa_i_ta having been the main single but I guess Konya was easier to make an exciting last PV for.

1 vote for Honto no tokoro, 10 and 5 for Saita and Karasawagi. EMF I am disappoint.

Looks like honto is the new fukushuu...

And apparently, you are the only one who voted for Honto no tokoro. :P

But this song does bring me back to KZK...

Favourite is definitely Ringo's song. Ukigumo's is a very, very close second (I like it in principle, but I still find myself wanting to hear track 1 more often). I regularly skip Izawa and Hata's contributions. I guess Ringo's vocals are just a very important factor in my enjoyment of their music.

That is very true.

I'm on the camp of those who love Hata's voice in honto, I think that's how Ringo would sound like if she was a man who smoked a pack of cigarettes everyday (I mean that as a good thing)

The only two songs that have votes are the two songs I liked least. Sounds like EMF :rolleyes:
(That is to say, Karasawagi isn't very good and Saita is pretty shallow and only appeals to people that can't look past a dance beat.)

/stir the pot

Where's the point stirring the pot anymore? Tokyo Jihen are (almost) gone :-p

They've been gone for a while :ph43r:

It's a pity the ninja smiley looks too cute to be cheeky ;-)

But dont get me wrong, Honto is my second favourite on this. The others I think are alright, 'cept Kai Horror Dust which I think is awful.

Well, I cast my vote, only to find myself in a room alone with Jihad. Not a position I ever expected to find myself in. :o

Only 3 songs has votes, I like all 3 songs.

:Jihad:

Cue bitter old queens, once again.

@Jihad
Uki's song reminds me of this band Of Montreal, a kind of psychedelic cyber funk-pop. It's more than just a dance beat. Unless you mean to say anything with a dance beat is automatically shallow?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Oh Wow.
Comparing "saita" to Of Montreal.

Oh man.

I know this post is rather crass, but considering Of Montreal just put out a fantastic album... Obviously, I'm not saying all songs with a dance beat are shallow, but for too many songs (and listeners these days) the dance beat is "enough" idea wise. I think Saita falls under this category. Saying "Saita" is at all in the league of songs like "Spiteful Intervention", "Ye Renew the Plaintiff" or "We Will Commit Wolf Murder" is laughable, sorry.

((Paralytic Stalks was terrible, they haven't done an "amazing" album since Skeletal Lamping))

It's so weird for you to say sa_i_ta is shallow, when the MOST shallow song on the EP is clearly Honto no Tokoro, both lyrically and musically.

EDIT: 700th Post HOOOooooooo

One day you'll re-read that post, and realize just how incorrect it is. I promise.

Wahaha~! Oh, that's right.

I completely agree with this.

I just looked up Of Montreal to see if it was as groovy as Sa_i_ta.

Yeah, white.

:-p

Also @Maou: is that a joke vote or you genuinely like Time Capsule? I think it's a fairly decent song, I like how it doesn't go into a big chorus or anything, and just stays really chilled out.

my Japanese isn't good enough to understand all the lyrics of Honto no Tokoro, but I just can't see how can you find a song about a tanuki dying shallow :huh:

It's legit. I really like it. Time Capsule and Honto do the best job at building a unique atmosphere. Honto is cool, but Time Capsule has a more personal meaning to me.

sa_i_ta was my favorite on first and second listen, but it didn't hold up. For now, it's:

Time Capsule > Honto > sai_i_ta > Konya >> Horror Dust

You just need to learn TurtleFu lingo and understand his standards that he adjusts based to fit his current argument. If he doesn't like it, it's usually "shallow" or "amateurish".

@Maou
I was going to get mad that you said that, but then I remembered I was equally rude and dismissive with Jihad for LIKING Honto no Tokoro. I try not to be a hypocrite.

@matan
The lyrics are pretty shallow. It's just a statement of some random events relating to death.

The chorus is literally:
"A hawk ate my housecat" x 4
OMG SO COMPLEX. CLEARLY HATA IS USING RANDOM ACTS OF DEATH TO REPRESENT MAN'S MORTALITY IN A TREATISE ON EXISTENTIALISM.

or... he just thought it was cool?

I remember something Jihad once said about Metro: ask a bunch of high school musicians to write a chorus, and you'll get the chorus to Metro.
In addendum: ask a bunch of "punk" high school musicians to write a song, and you'll get Honto no Tokoro. It's good for raw visceral energy, not for complexity.

You need to lighten up. You're so defensive and easy to upset. You remind me of how I used to be and how Jihad used to be. Oddly, it seems like half the time you're trying to prove yourself to Jihad.

Maybe the lyrics Hata writes are deep. Maybe that line is a metaphor of the time he got a blow from some older woman. I don't know.

Are the lyrics from Kabuki complex? Does that make you like it less? Do you want some more? YES PLEASE! They're not complex and just as bad. I think.

Maybe the hawk eating the housecat was a metaphor about Jihen eating Ringo. Now she cut her way out of the hawks stomach, we shold get electric. I am not thinking while typing this obviously.

^ Perhaps, DG. Ringo does associate herself with cats fairly often.

I could have written the words to Honto no tokoro when I was 14.

Well, I could write the lyrics of I Wanna Hold Your Hand by the Beatles at 10, doesn't make it a bad or shallow song. Shallow to me is stuff like Ke$ha.

((I like Kesha))

but only for feminist reasons!

A child could write the lyrics of mikan no kawa. It is whether you understood the metaphor or not.

What I am trying to say is that don't judge the lyrics completely.

If you told someone english illeterate, "A piece of cake!". He might think that you are extremely lusty for a piece of cake. However as we all know, that is quite the opposite.

Sure it might seem simple, maybe it's deeply complex. It looks extremely complex, but it might be gibberish. (It's almost like shakespeare-esque writing, thou/art/deth/hath - It's the same meaning in english, nothing more, nothing less)

One who would know is: Hata!

Let's go bug him!

In relation to Honto no Tokoro lyrics:

--Where did the lyrics come from?
Hata: Cool. I've never been asked that before (laughter).
Everyone : (Laughter)
Hata : I really found a dead crow and raccoon dog near my house.
Hata: Yeah, but there are raccoon dogs. Around where I live. There are also toddy cats and martens. I saw the dead crow and felt sorry for it, so I thought I'd bury it in my friend's field. But then a bunch of crows came clamoring. They didn't attack me, but I thought they seemed sad in some way. That night I found a raccoon dog dead in front of my house. It was still warm.
--So, the crow and raccoon dog line is a true story.
Hata: Same with the cat being eaten by a hawk. A guy at an onsen I stayed at in Yamanashi told me about it. Basically, the lyrics are about deaths that have occurred near me.
--Everything that lives in the universe, actually, does not really want to die--the lyrics are your view of life and death in a way.
Hata: Yes. But at the same time I think my own fascination with death is in there as well.

From: here.

(BlueApples post beat me to the punch, but lets elaborate)
I'm sure we all realize words can be metaphors. But they don't always have to be. (I don't mean to hold Honto no Tokoro up to this candle, but for the sake of internet arguing) Lets look at The Beatles. They rarely (read: almost never) ever wrote metaphorically. "You Won't see me" was about a breakup, Norwegian Wood was about an affair, Yellow Submarine was about a yellow submarine. And when The Beatles didn't write literally, the song was generally very abstract (read: about essentially nothing.) Strawberry Fields, I am the Walrus.
So lets take the extreme of this literal writing, the Abbey Road centerpiece "I Want You (She's so Heavy)" The lyrics are extremely simple, "I want you so bad it's driving me mad. She's so heavy." That's all she wrote! Any one could have written that right? Even the single rhyme in there is pretty training-wheels-ey. But what you say? There's more to the lyrics than what they literally are?

Exactly.

That's the power of repetition. The pounding and re-pounding of the words, the delivery. Now, it is more obvious why John Lennon would be saying "I want you so bad" over and over again, but if a guy is repeating how a cat was eaten by a hawk, over and over, you should be asking yourself why? Why would someone do that. BlueApple jumped to the conclusion before I got to here, but only after learning what the song was about did it make even more sense. It's like when you see something disturbing on the internet, but you can't help but replay it in your mind. Your inside someone else's head, and seeing their inner replay, with the cacophony bouncing around the inside of his maddening skull.

And even without that, its still just a cool sounding song! It adds some texture, some variety, something really new to the Tokyo Jihen plate which has always so readily been stocked with the safest same-old-same-old. Yeah its about something gross, and sounds a little gross. It's not something that will play on the radio or accompany a make up ad campaign, or reach the widest of audiences. But that shouldn't be the goal of every song. Honto no Tokoro is something really rough, and thought out, and abrasive and almost throws no regard to anything else in the Jihen catalog.

Yes, he repeats on about a couple of disturbing scenes. Anyone could do that. But not everyone does. To me, to write that off is just baffling. If you're going to play that game, then almost everything is meaningless and shallow. John Lennon was just lusting after a girl. Arcade Fire was just singing about being a kid. The Sex Pistols were just singing about being pissed off. Without regarding intent or the very personal deliveries. But not everyone can be so deep as to express having a crush on someone or having fun at the club.

I will end this with a youtube of what I think is one of the dumbest, shallowest songs I've heard: (spoilers: its not Kesha)

^ Very true. I am glad I learnt something.

Not so sure about the video though...

Me not liking it has nothing to do with me being disgusted with the type of imagery. I'm not turned off with it being about "gross" stuff.

So what separates Hata's song from any other goth-punk-song about death with a repetitive chorus?

It seems to me the reason you like it so much is because it's so different than anything Jihen has done before. Making it an anti-Jihen song. But, to me, it seems silly just to like something because it's contrary.

You say "not everyone does". Uh yeah, a lot of (bad) songwriters have one line repeated over and over again for the chorus. And a lot of goth-punk wannabes write about death as if they are creating GREAT ART with GREAT INSIGHT.

I just feel like with the type of criticism you've thrown at Jihen, the fact that your favorite is the most simplistic, most repetitive song on the EP is confusing for me.

Simple does not equal easy, or ordinary. Repetitive does not equal boring or unexciting. The song has some dynamic that is well executed, compared to the kinda sloppy "lets just make it real fast at the end!" approach that the band has used at least a couple of times (like on Osca.) The song takes a risk. I don't like it just because its different. Variety was different, and I didn't like that. I like it because its a good song, exciting to listen to, with great texture. It stands out from their catalog because its different.

How is it different from some catch all broad brushstoke catch all? It is produced from a very traditional approach and has some apparent classical (almost symphonic) undertones.

I have often said TJs music is paint-by-numbers. And from a very superficial standpoint you can say about death, not a happy sounding song, screaming vocals, reverb: paint by numbers! But there is clearly more to chew on here than say, Onna no ko wa dare demo, or Sora ga natteiru, or Kensao Naoshi. All those songs are derivative and don't really put a spin on their sound. Fukushuu fits this as well honestly. But Honto no Tokoro reads as very unique and to say this sounds derivative of anything sounds like you haven't heard much of the goth-punk wide brushstroke caricature genre you speak of. I don't mean to say its the most unique, ear exploding song that no ones ever heard anything like, or that it doesn't have anything in common with gothic music, but there's enough of a mixture to keep it interesting and a lot working for the song.

If rough, scratchy vocals and reverby music aren't your thing, that's okay. But to try to say the song is amateur or easy, or uninformed is...well...

Sorry to be crass, but this is all over Honto....? And lyrics in another language anyway? The main appeal of that song for me is not THE LYRICS OR HATA. its Ringo on MOTHERFUCKIN' DRUMS!

I understand where both sides are coming from, but Honto does not seem like the kind of song anyone would argue about... theres nothing particularly unpleasant about it. It's just cool and not Kai Horror Dust awful.

I am on this with grandmama.

I know. I've probably talked more about it than its wortg

:hmph:

You've got me to appreciate Honto more, Jihad, but I don't know if I would elevate it the same way you do.

Let me just say one more thing, that is is only tangently related to what we are talking about. I am an art student. One of the things we do is peer criticism. I mostly work in sculpture and ceramics. I had to critique somebody elses work, it was a sculpture of a decapitated head (I know...). I said to her "You're going to say this is some major statement about mortality, but I think you just thought it was edgy". She said "Yeah..." (It turns out she was hoping that by doing something shocking the professor would like it more).
That is how I feel.

I don't mean to just pick apart everything but that still seems too lazily dismissive to me. All things you say can be applied to a song like "Fukushuu." Was Ukigumo just trying to be different, and contrary, and hard rocking for the sake of it? Yeah, probably. Was very exceptional outside of that? Did it take any risk? Not really. (I like Fukushuu though and I know and understand that's purely on a personal subjective level. If someone says "its the most awful song ever" I think that's a little overboard, but I get that there's not a whole lot going on.)

But there should be a clear difference between that song and Honto no Tokoro. The band and Hata I think clearly are taking a risk, I don't think its necessarily gratuitous either, just for the sake of it, because I got the feeling the song was supported and built towards on the Color Bars EP. (Contrast with Fukushuu on Variety.) It wasn't just out of nowhere, but was still a leap; and that's exciting. Its the difference between a good decapitated head sculpture and a bad one. Not all of them are bad, and not all of them are good, but there are plenty of questions we can ask to think between the two. How is the expression on the face, what is it made of, how is the sever, how detailed, what idiosyncrasies are there?

It's real easy to dismiss a song like Honto no Tokoro or other songs that may be out of one's comfort zone, just like it may be easy for someone like me to dismiss someone like Kesha. (What? I think you can do far worse in music than Kesha. Sue me, its catchy.) I'm sure there were people that wrote of Shiina Ringo when "Honnou" rolled around too. Oh she's just trying to be shocking (but how is that really bad?)

EDIT:
Then why ask or post? -- edit,: i misread your quote as "I don't really want to be convinced" please ignore. My reactionist mistake!

To say the "songwriting is amateur" just seems selective. is the "songwriting" really different from "Honnou"? There's a verse and a chorus and little else. Perhaps you mean melody, but would a catchy melody really enhance this song? I think the opposite would be true. Would Shiinav Ringo really do a better job at singing the song? Her voice is maybe more "trained" but that's like saying Celine Dion should have sang "Smells like Teen Spirit" (I mean, you know what I mean.) There would have been a mismatch that may not have worked. Hata's voice just strains and cracks so nicely with the rest of the instrumentation.

Maybe what you mean is that it isn't an apparent easy pop song (that even Fukushuu resembles) with clean instrumentation, clean presentable vocals, and focus grouped melodies and you just don't like songs that aren't pop songs. Which is fair.

RE-EDIT: TO BE FAIR the song really doesn't fit the jpop,idol fanbase the band has cultivated since Variety.

I don't get it. I thought the writing was amateur, I thought the vocals were awful, and thus I didn't enjoy the song as much as I did some of the other songs. It's as simple as that. Why are some people so eager to think that we are 'dismissing' it as if there were inherently no validity in any of the songs criticisms, objective or not.

Okay, someone who disagrees tell me what's so effing complex or clever or moving or interesting about the lyrics then. No, really, I want to be convinced. Just telling me that it's different from the rest of the band's repertoire doesn't cut it because by that logic I could similarly lay the same amount of praise on a hypothetical cover of "Heads and shoulders, knees and toes" by.....Paris Hilton. Or something.

EDIT:
Tangential, but the reason I prefer Fukushuu MASSIVELY over Honto is because I think Ringo is just a much greater joy to listen to than Hata is (on this song). There.

Maybe I'm not caught up, but I thought the dismissing comments came from TurtleFu's "I think a lot of you only like it because it's different" nonsense.

The lyric aspect just isn't a good angle to attack from because, so far, it's based on one line from the song. It's the only line ever talked about. Wouldn't it be amateurish/foolish of me to pick on the lyrics of 3min based only on the line "You're all alone, you're fixing ramen, you pour hot water in" as my only example? I'm not going to disagree that the lyrics are simple. It just doesn't matter when there are simple lyrics in many of the songs people love.

The vocal angle is a tougher one to judge because it requires a more personal knowledge of who you are talking to. If you like/don't mind Izawa's or Ukigumo's god-awful voices, I can't buy into an argument that Hata's voice spoils the song.

^ I like Izawa/Uki's voices when they work together with Ringo's. I think they sound nice as harmonising sounds, just as long as they aren't the Entire song. Which is partly why I hated Kai horror dust.

The reason why we have only been talking about that one line is because that one line is repeated about 4351316 times in the song. We could talk about the other lines, but they involve replacing the 'tanuki' with other nouns, and 'shindara' with other verbs. It's a bit like an elementary school language exercise.

Just for arguments sake, did it bother you that the two-second bassline in OSCA was played 13 times in 30 seconds or that the guitar riff from Shuraba (Adult ver.) was played 4351316 times during the intro and outro? Or does high repetition only matter if it's a vocalist?

I'll also add that the ending for sa_i_ta is one minute too long.

High repetition matters when it is done mindlessly without any sort of finesse. Like Hata's screaming. And bad writing.

I agree with you about sa_i_ta's ending. I skip it over all the time once the main bits are over.

whoa, oh my god. Didn't realize they were publishing official English translations of the interviews/liner notes. Ahh! Exciting! (Funny though, they keep linking to the members' statements on the band breaking up but those aren't translated officially.) I can't figure out where they're all linked from though? Are there more?

I just noticed this in the translated liner notes, about the color bars interlude in Discovery:

lol, I wish it was

Whee, my vote just pushed sa_i_ta into the top!

...should I duck?

I liked Honto no Tokoro slightly more after reading that interview, but that's not really saying much. There's probably going to be no getting over my disturbing first impression of that song for me. I was kind of shocked when I listened to it, first by the notion that this would be their final song (as in last song on their last release - before Tokyo Collection was announced though), and then again after "why he is he chanting about the dead cat?" gave way to "wait, when you consider how much cat imagery is associated with Ringo, this becomes KIND OF WEIRD."

You just explained why its one of the best songs to come out of Tokyo Jihen.

Ha! You're right, in the Japanese it says "Kabuki." I wonder who they got to do this translation? It looks like it's the only one so far.

Ukigumo's sa_i_ta is my favorite song out of the bunch. Ringo's track is my second favorite. Kameda's is okay. And the other two I never ever listen to. I just can't with Izawa.