[Poll] Zazen Ecstasy or Electric Mole?
 

Yay! I know some uf you haven't watched 'Zazen Ecstasy' and it's too soon to decide, but, who cares? We love polls and this is THE poll. Come on, choose: Zazen Ecstasy or Electric Mole, the ever-loved show?

Which one do you prefer? D:

Oh Orenji, you stole my poll idea (I was minutes away) and then you insult me by voting for the mole over Zazen :hmph:

Electric Mole is awesome but all those breaks in the show are a pain in the ass! all that Journey of the Mole crap!

I vote for Zazen cause it Rocks! I already seen it 14 times but I still want more!! that's how good it is.

Electric Mole (and Dynamite Out) are the Fat Man and Little Boy of Shiina's live arsenal. Zazen is inspired and fantastic, but EM is just a monster.

It was very difficult for me to choose one, believe me. Although I LOVED Zazen, I find it a too-much-short show. Apart from that, most of the songs were already featured in GX, which is a DVD I've watched like 100 times.

Finally, I must say that every, EVERY song on Electric Mole makes my day... They all sound better than in their album original versions. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in Zazen, but the first few songs from it are a little... not boring, but not ORGASMIC (EM's Koufukuron, Tsumi to Batsu, Mayonaka, Doppelganger, Ishiki... You know -_-).

the first half's not boring.. it's a slow build! then it kicks ass!! I like the short running time cause it's compact and you don't have to settle in for 2 hours so it's ideal for me.

I didn't think it fair to knock Zazen for it's length. I think it is ultimately more re-watchable and I prefer Shiina's stage presence. Electric Mole is something I'll listen to more though, in terms of audio rips. As for which is ultimately the better live gig. iDunno. I'll vote Zazen cos it's fresh in my mind and for Yokushitsu :wub:

Also, when people say first half, surely they're referring to the first 5 tracks (and in that sense, I'll agree that they're underwhelming in comparison to what is to come). There was nothing boring about Identity, Byoshou Public, Unconditional Love and everything after.

Don't worry, there's surely going to be a Variety Xtacy DVD which will pwn both of these combined.

BTW guys, are there already audio-rips from Zazen :O?

Don't dirty this thread with Variety! we are comparing the good performances here it's a real battle. so vote wisely.:lol:

Calm down Bongo :unsure:

I was kidding!! I'm not really angry or anything.

Joke all you want, I was just worried that merman might think it was a legitimate snap back (mainly due to the swearing which I see you've edited out :)).

What actually happened to the Zazen band ? Ponytail & Uncle Fester
(as Jihad affectionately called them) I thought they were rockin'!! who are they ?

I dont think the knock to ZX is its length. A knock could be the GX songs, but I think its still forgivable. ZX is a smaller, more obscure, intimate show, and EM is an arena exploder. Sonically I do think EM is a more impressive, but please no one morph this to "Jihad thinks ZX sux" post or anything =p

Not at all, I agree with you. I prefer a more intimate gig myself though. And Shiina's stage presence nails it for me. As I said for the very reasons you stated, I'll listen to EM more. But I'm not the kind of guy that watches gig DVD's a lot anyway (14 times Bongo? Really?). I've probably only watched every one on my SR/TJ gigs or any of my concert DVD's 3/4 times.

it's the shortness of this that makes me wanna watch it a lot! it's all killer and no filler! I've only saw all the others on DVD no more than 5 times each ever.. I mostly just dive into the audio rips.

*off-topic* I found Junji much attractive in the Zazen show than in the GX one. I love his hair *_*. Oh, you'll think I'm gay, which is always a cool thing :wub: lol *off-topic*

I wonder why they didn't feature EMI on the DVD T_T... I love that cover!

Legal issues I'd imagine.

With Sex Pistols? Oh, I didn't think about it D:

Erm, not watched Zazen, but this poll is so damn obvious I'm gonna vote straight away =P

oh the votes are neck and neck!!! 3/3 who'll win ?

4/3 now D:

Plus one of the EM voters hasn't even seen Zazen.

Didnt that infamous "fav album poll" that placed Variety like second made tne week of Variety's release teach us anything?

Lets just enjoy the dvd right now guys and not have to start applying subjective criticisms yet.

I'm totally enjoying it 250% besides we can always have another poll in a few weeks to see how the votes stand up.

>_< hard..


I like ringo better in zazen
but I like EM's tracklist better

damn

EM is legend stuff. I loved Zazen, but I can't not vote for EM.

It surprised me that the votes are this close, what with all the release euphoria... and still some stay sober enough to say EM was better nonetheless. I've seen neither actually (EM not in its entirety), so I'm not going to vote unless I've seen both. Oh and with the Variety thing I wouldn't get angry even with Bongo's swearing I guess, it seems to me Variety is pretty much a running joke on EMF :)

I much prefer the straightforward no-nonsense production of ZE, and it is a kick ass performance, but I had to go with EM, for the band and the music. It is the most classic Ringo solo show.

I chose Zazen because it's hipper, even though I'm more of a TJ-EM fan. It's a better live experience overall.

I don't have an answer for it >_<
I'll wait till I decide between these two gorgeous things

I think that settles it, Lena :P

Don't persuade her D:!

vote for EM, c'mon. XDDDDD

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_ ______|Zazen wins!! all settled|
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That's the end of it.

there is no good full shots of Shiina from Zazen I could have used :(

Don't worry, I like Uki's legs.

_-____--________________________________
_ ______|I like your legs too, my orenji boy ;D |
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__________. . |/

I always thought that Uki's left leg looked like the bottom of an umbrella


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_ __________________|Lena, you must balance the scoring! |
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now he looks like a seahorse!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA, I LOVE YOU GUYS XD.

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|I love you more Orenji |
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keep bleeding, keep, keep bleeding, love D:

whoa, definitely never seen that pic before...looks pre MM-era, with the crown.

I voted EM. It is the true apex of Ringo's career. I mean if you had to erase Ringo's ENTIRE catalogue, and only have one surviving artifact, I'd want it to be Electric Mole. Even the title, the first to really deviate away from the Ecstasy theme, shows you how personal it was, even with the Journey of the Mole videos....as far as much goes, Doppleganger=love so I had to vote for that. Zazen is rock bliss, but Electric Mole is taking KZK and the Jihen boys and just wraps up everything Ringo and eventually Jihen and her entire aesthetic so perfectly. No-contest here. I think people are just voting Zazen right now because they are so starved for old-Ringo and this is such a recent release.

You make good points, and I think your last point is probably true. Watching EM in a month or two, maybe I will change my mind. But the fact that Zazen has invigorated and rejuvenated my Ringo love right now; it has to get my vote which still stands. And while EM may sound better, mean more and ultimately be the better gig I won't change my mind on preferring Shiinas stage presence and the intimate setting of Zazen.

Now that I'm comfortable with Zazen inside and out I'm gonna watch Electric Mole again tonight and see what I prefer for sure.. but as whispa said it's the intimacy of Zazen which is the real win part for me!! and I still think 'My Luxury Night' was incredible! more so than Mr. Wonderful.

Nothing can beat Electric Mole.

we definitely should re-poll in a few weeks after the honeymoon is over and see what we all think.

well they are definitely completely different aesthetically, because knowing the history of Zazen here we are seeing Ringo, who for the first time is embarking on her odyssey, leaving the more eccentric western image behind (the tour outfits, photoshoots, even the previous tour's mannequin during Nippon ni Umarete), and embracing the essence of Japan. Ultimately that culminates with KZK and then the following tour, where in EM we see her at her pinnacle. In Zazen she still has that early MM SS trademark flair about her performance, by EM she has lost that in favor of being the true artist we all associate with KZK and the name Shiina Ringo. So it is like the difference between looking at the diamond in the rough versus the finished diamond ring, each has its own beauty, one is raw potential, the other is cultivated and perfected craftsmanship.

they both bookend an amazing solo career and have their own strong points. but for me, EM is the epitome and end all be all of Ringo, no contest.

almost more interesting, it can be argued, is that period between SS and KZK (utaite myori? hahah) where she went through such transition as a person and a songwriter. how long had KZK-style material been brewing in her head? Really, Zazen is the last we see of her in a lot of ways until around KZK, which is the complete transformation. Utaite Myori, more or less, was released to satisfy her label and was culminated from music she was listening to a lot at that time. Creatively though, we don't get a clear glimpse into her mindset again until KZK though....I wonder where it all stemmed from...I'm sure she must have talked about it in interviews, but I can't recall.

This guy deserves a crown, man!

I think this was the best answer I ever read. Very very good, kuro-san.

Yeah, good post and great arguments. I hope I'm not going to be stoned for asking such a dumb question, but I'm too lazy to look it up now: which was the earlier concert, Zazen or Gekokujo? Some posts have confused me a bit here... thanks :)

Zazen came first! 30th July 2000 and Gekokujyo was 7th December 2000

And why the kinda-nurse mannequin was featured in an earlier concert? o.O

I was just re-going over that ?? I'm not actually sure when Gekokujyo took place.. I was quoting the release date..? but as for the Actual performance date.. I've no idea.

I dunno, Neko has posted this idea that Zazen was Shiina saying goodbye to her Western garb and embracing traditional japanese stuff. Its true that its the first time she was more traditional visually (which I honestly think accounts for very very little.) Its not like it was a full out sayonara to her "western roots."

Yes, there was Sugoroku/EM -- but lest we forget the tour before Sugoroku in promotion of KZK. The tour that was akin to BX (tho the actual performance in BX was before this tour of which im speaking.) I think this is a very western presentation. Jihen for the most part (excepting the very recent sotc2 shows) undoubtedly western. Even if you discount Jihen, HF was a classically showtunes affair.

I just think Neko has ran with this "leaving behind of western stuff" idea a little farther than it was worth.

Bongo: You are talking of the GX DVD release. Not when the GX show was performed live tho ;)

Oh sorry, I thought you were quoting the concerts dates, but then I realized both concerts took place in several venues (Gekokukyo, especially). Sorry, silly me xD.

You were half right Orenji, I was listing Zazen's performance date but Gekokujyo's DVD date as I have no idea when that was on and I initially assumed that was the performance date.

According to my records (from Ringo Catalogue), the GX concert toured between 2000.04.28 and 2000.05.31. So my guess is that Zazen was held after GX finished.

The killing of the GX doll could be a symbol of moving away from her rock genre, into the more experimental, traditional soundscape of KZK.

I think its just one of those cool images that is self-referential that Shiina just enjoys making.

Her giving the finger in the Tsumiki Asobi video, while wearing traditional japanese garments is clear sign she didn't agree with traditional customs guys! :waa: And the sword in the Tsumi vid? ho ho! Wait til you piece THAT one together. :wakka:

I thought that Ringo doll was gonna go up in flames.. I was a little let down with that.

I want gamble live in dvd >_________<

Now I feel disappointed that it didn't! Thanks a lot Bingo! :hmph:

sorry Jesse :(

You're forgiven! :D

I'm actually paraphasing more or less the album liner notes that came in the ZX copy of RAT that was at Tower when I bought the magazine. In it there is a really long article about the show, where they describe how SS was released that march, followed by GX in the following months, then a month as Hatsuiku Status, then the Zazen show....in the last paragraph they really go into detail about the mannequin and what this show represented, mainly a move away from her earlier image and into what we saw later. I guess saying leaving "western stuff" is a little misleading, but the way it is written is very difficult to translate, they talk about her embracing "和” which literally means harmony or peace but is used in general for anything of Japanese aesthetic....so I think I may have put it a bit crudely....but it still more or less served as her first jumping off point where people realized we weren't going to get another SS.

All this has me thinking, as I am going to the second of the anniversary shows, I really do NOT want to come near this board or research anything about the first show beforehand. I don't know what to expect, but I of course am hoping to be pleasantly surprised, if not blown away. I do hope she does something worthy of the venue. I took the train past it this summer, it is massive. I wouldn't mind meeting up with any members here in the afternoon, if I make it to Tokyo in time, but there would be a strict no spoilers clause!

(Although it will probably be hard not to guess if the show turned out to be a disaster....)

Electric Mole for sure.

Reason?

HZM.

Pretty much, yeah :P
Altough what makes EM win, to me, is the tracklist. A Tsumi-to-Batsu-less show can't be as good as one with it!
Meh, of course it's just not that. I haven't watched Zazen yet, but I voted EM because it's really difficult to improve what was done in that show and it represents the best TJ Phase!
And because it's so damn epic and I'm listening to it all the time~

I finally made my Electric Mole edit so it has no band practice or journey of the mole segments!! so I'm gonna watch it later and see if I like this as a non stop musical show as much as Zazen!

Zazen DVD for sure, because of the editing and superb audio.
EM performance for sure, because of Tokyo Jihen Phase 0.

I can't vote.

Now if only they had a remastered EM which is straight out rock concert with a full version of Okonomide and Honnou...

Electric Mole annoys me so so much!! they should have at least included an option to watch just the actual performances.. and Okonomide all cut up like that is silly ? all that stuff just distracts and interrupts the show! probaly why I currently favor Zazen over it.

EM takes this for me. We have the better setlist, better band (Yayoshi vs. Hirama? Pleeeeeeaasee >_>) and some of the best performances of Ringo's solo career. That would have been one hell of a concert to see. Even watching the DVD gives me a rush. But yeah, can't really compare in my eyes.

There's a full version of Okonomide
not straight out though :(

Does my preference make me a Zazen Boy ? :lol:

Only if there is at least one other Zazen Boy for you to perform an almost-completely-different song with!

EM
cause:

Hirama
Kuki
HZM
it's on budokan
and I feel, even zazen being a omg-omg great-great intense emotionful rawk show, it's just a rawk show...
suguroku performance was more creative, you know, the songs sounds so different of the originals, so unusual (AAAAaand NOT orchestrated XD)

I'm not fussed about whatever band are playing..even if it were just Shiina with a karaoke machine & some wax dummies, I'd probaly still pick Zazen! I like that show better.

EM is a close second.

This is so difficult to decide. I agree with whoever said that Zazen is inspired and well executed but Mole is a monster. I finally voted for Zazen because of 1) a higher % of songs I care about, 2) annoying interludes in Mole, 3) I love the fact that Shiina did a fans only show singing all albumtracks Bsides and covers bar one.

electric mole^^

Zazen. Amazing covers. Amazing performances of less popular songs from her catalogue. No annoying interludes. Smiling Shiina. Giddy Shiina.

Come back Shiina.

I just noticed that it's not Ecstacy, Ecstasy or whatever else!! it's in small print on Zazen's back cover!! (bottom left)

...........................[it's actually Zazen Xstasy read the back cover! oh! & vote for me!!]
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now I have to re-tag my rips :(
I had nothing else to post at 07:06 (sorry)

I knew it XD

Yes, it's "Xstasy" as in "Gekokujyo Xstasy". I like it that way too, 'cause it would actually be "ecss(x + s)tasy" :P.

Jeez, where have you been man? :lol:

Zazen doesnt have any KSK songs, so the Mole gets my vote.

Oh! Zazen!! I think we're gonna lose :(

because voters have not all seen zazen and are blinded by fanboyism instead of the beauty of a concert, as always ;P

Or is it because voters are blinded by the beauty of a concert?

Definitely you had sex with apples the other day :lol: xDDDD. EM for the win ò_ó.

Ok, Zazen is wonderful. I love how she re-invents her songs and how "the mole" does the work. I loved Stoicism, it was worth the wait to watch this song live. Nihon ni Umarete is haunting. Everything is perfect, actually.
But even after watching Zazen, if I could vote again, I would still choose EM ;)

After watching my Electric Mole edit I'm torn on this vote.. just seeing the music uninterrupted (give or take with my sometimes brutal edits) I think I like the EM show a hell of a lot more than I used to!! I think I'm still for Zazen but EM is stunning when there is nothing getting in the way.

Zazen.

Back when this poll started I voted Zazen, now I've changed my mind :/

Not yet. My vote pull it even XD

Ooh! a dead heat!!

Gah, just watched all of Zazen for the first time and now I can't even rave about it anywhere...:hmph:

Should have gotten into Shiina earlier...

Don't be silly, you can still rave about the experience :hmph: it's always interesting to hear a new opinion on things. :)

had to vote for EM, it was my first love.....but still my favourite now, so not just a sentimental vote. :)

QFT, though no offense intended, I think it's kind of silly in a funny way..

Oh and EM, zazen still hasn't popped up in my mind as I'm typing thi- it does now but I'll rule it out, doesn't count as much as EM.
Electric Mole Forums, c'mon guys..