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Old 2019.05.29, 11:32 AM   #121
zeroryouko
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Originally Posted by shirasagi View Post
Really what I have a problem with is exactly what you address in the very last paragraph. While I understand your disappointment, why should it matter what each of us "wants" from Ringo's music? Everyone is complaining about how Ringo sold out, but having no agency of one's own and just delivering what everyone else would like is much more disingenuous to me. KZK was life-changing, but how life-changing would it be if she stayed on that level, for argument's sake? Or in reverse, do you think she would succeed if she tried to do the same thing all over again? (not saying she wouldn't, just asking)
I think that perhaps I didn't do a good job of conveying what I was trying to convey with the last paragraph. You had asked specifically what it was that we wanted to hear, musically, track by track. I am not in any way a musician nor am I versed in music theory, so I can't really discuss the album from that kind of technical perspective.

But the point I was trying to make is that the hallmark of good music is that it creates a narrative - a journey being a very relatable type of narrative. Humans love to create narratives - indeed it could be argued that the nature of consciousness itself is a narrative we create, minute by minute, to explain where we've been, where we are, and where we're going. And while the value of any narrative is ultimately subjective, there are ways we can at least partially quantify it.

There's a lot of talk on this forum, for example, about dynamic range, as it relates to the recordings themselves. And in that context, dynamic range is more or less an objective means of measuring what is ultimately a subjective, individual experience, that of listener fatigue. I would propose that there is also a "dramatic range" that could be applied to musical or theatrical or literary works. And like dynamic range, while the usual criticism is that there's too little, there can also be too much.

Going back to topography, there is the idea of topographic prominence. It is basically a quantitative measure of how high a particular mountain peak appears to be in relation to what's around it. The tallest mountain peak in a range of tall peaks does not by itself look all that impressive; compare this to something like Mt. Fuji which is far taller than anything else around it. Music needs to reach those dramatic peaks sometimes.

For me the specific analogy of music as a journey is very real and actually somewhat literal. There are specific passages in Ringo's music that I can listen to and immediately envision a place I've been, at a specific time of day. Izonshou, for example - as soon as she starts singing "Atashi ga, kono mama..." I am on the cliffs at sunset overlooking the ocean at a point near my house. After noticing this, I actually went there and played it, and it was everything I'd hoped it would be.

A journey must have at minimum a beginning and a destination. Ideally the destination is somewhere significant. A journey shouldn't be too boring either; the best have twists and surprises along the way that induce excitement (but not so many as to induce apprehension). Those intermediate moments should be in themselves memorable, and occasionally spaced with a little room to breathe and just appreciate where one has been so far.

So, trying to put all of that into practice for Sandokushi:
  • The album, stylistically, veers haphazardly from one extreme to the next. It doesn't *flow*; the transitions are too abrupt. For example, Tori to Hebi to Buta -> Kemono Yuku Hosomichi is very obviously trying to accomplish what Shuukyou -> Doppelganger did, but it just winds up sounding like a compilation instead of an actual transition.
  • The old songs are just too familiar at this point. Tori to Hebi to Buta starts us off going somewhere that promises to be amazing, and then suddenly we are almost literally back at the fucking mall.
  • Speaking of the mall, the remix of Menukidoori was a mistake. Tortoise Matsumoto is most certainly not Shiina Ringo, vocally, and putting more emphasis on his voice than hers makes the song feel a lot flatter. I should note that I actually came to like the original.
  • And speaking of flatness, Isogabamaware is just that. The melody seems featureless; it's kind of "samey" throughout. There isn't a really good hook, for one thing.
  • Contrast all of the above to Kakeochimono. It starts dramatically. Ringo's performance is thrilling, and Sakurai Atsushi's voice complements it nicely. The melody is memorable and the dissonance is downright savory. The only criticisms, really, are that the chorus is a *little* too cloying to mesh properly with the "weirdness" of the rest of the song, and it could use a bigger finish.
Originally Posted by shirasagi View Post
It's also funny you tell me not to speak about Kate Bush, because frankly that is the closest comparison I can make - not stylistically, but moreso in their artistry. Ringo in her heyday had a very similar approach to music, thinking outside the box and defying predefined categories, and making music that was incredibly bold and yet still completely accessible. They both made music which was pop and yet couldn't be further from pop music at the same time. Kate Bush has literally pushed the then-available technology to its limits, and Hounds of Love and The Dreaming are still two albums that sound like nothing else, even within her catalogue, and have aged incredibly well. She's the kind of artist who's had the kind of impact so great it becomes invisible.
In short, Kate Bush was pushing the musical envelope in the 80s much like Ringo has in the early 2000s, and it's a damn shame she wasn't heard all over the world. I'm sure we'll all agree on that.

If you never did, sacrifice twenty minutes of your life and listen to the back half of Hounds of Love ("The Ninth Wave"). Maybe it will be a life-changing experience, I know it was for me, and mind you that was AFTER I heard and fell in love with KZK
I think what you are telling me, in a very polite way, is to stop being so narrow-minded when it comes to Ringo vs. other artists. That is a fair criticism, so, point taken.

I will admit that I wrote that part, to a certain extent, out of pique. My experience with KZK was a very personal, subjective, one-time-only thing. Its effect went far beyond the music itself. So, yeah, I took it personally, and got a bit butthurt. I apologize.

There are definitely a lot of people out there who are criticizing Ringo for purely personal reasons. There are also a lot of steadfast fans who are so for purely personal reasons. The challenge is to keep the semi-rational, fully emotional aspects of the content itself in a sandbox, separated from one's personal feelings about the performer. I have always tried, but not always succeeded, to do so.

Originally Posted by shirasagi View Post
And speaking of, maybe Ringo should take a cue from her and just completely disappear for twelve years. I'm pretty sure there would be more gratitude for her even making music in the first place.
I think this is the simplest part to argue: Ringo is showing obvious signs of burnout. The cure is a long hiatus.
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Last edited by zeroryouko : 2019.05.29 at 11:37 AM.
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