[TJ] 2006.01.25 - Adult (CD) [Album]

[frecklegirl]

She already had that knowledge, remember? She grew up listening to her dad's jazz albums and her mother's classical ballet-accompaniment music. It's not a matter of going from raw emotions to education. She had a jazz/classical background from the very beginning.

[Canto]

Having experience of appreciating jazz music is completely different from learning knowledge on music theory. It's like knowing the effect of Einstein's relative theory vs. actually learning the detailed theory of it. It's pretty easy to get lost in formulas & equations and lost one's overview. Same tragedy happens in music composition, if not worse.

[frecklegirl]

That's not what I'm talking about. Your statement made it sound like before, she was only raw emotions and no actual musical knowledge (NOT real study, knowledge). Which is not true.

I mean, who knows if she's even taken any music theory classes at all in her life?? I'm not going to debate about that.

[Tokyo Jihad]

It sounded to me like Canto was commenting on the audiences background, not Shiina's.

And id bet she hadn't had a "music theory class" before her debut. (Even after)

[justriiingo]

Canto seems to be very against music theory.
Well thing is, if you analyse music written by Bach Beethoven Shiina Ringo and other musical geniuses, you realise that they break most of the rules anyway. Or they insert cool altered chords in places where you least expect them to show up, and that's why the music sound so amazing.

Music theory exists to help people without innate musical talent to write decent songs. People like SR overwrite the rules in music theory with her own.

As for Adult, whether you like it or not (I don't), something changed.
SR isn't quite the same person in MM/SS/KZK anymore. Maybe it's because she lost 2 important members from Tokyo Jihen. Maybe it's the realisation that she doesn't need to fight for her musical vision anymore. Either way, something changed.
And I think that is the most apparent in Adult.

[digdad]

Originally Posted by justriiingo

Canto seems to be very against music theory.
Well thing is, if you analyse music written by Bach Beethoven Shiina Ringo and other musical geniuses, you realise that they break most of the rules anyway. Or they insert cool altered chords in places where you least expect them to show up, and that's why the music sound so amazing.

Music theory exists to help people without innate musical talent to write decent songs. People like SR overwrite the rules in music theory with her own.

As for Adult, whether you like it or not (I don't), something changed.
SR isn't quite the same person in MM/SS/KZK anymore. Maybe it's because she lost 2 important members from Tokyo Jihen. Maybe it's the realisation that she doesn't need to fight for her musical vision anymore. Either way, something changed.
And I think that is the most apparent in Adult.

There’s a big difference between music theory and musical conventions. Music theory is a way to understand how music works and considers all aspects of music. It does not have rules as such which dictate how music should be created; those are conventions which are particular to different musical styles as well as time periods and cultures. Bach, Beethoven, and SR may have gone against certain musical conventions, but they did not defy music theory. While I agree that the study of music theory is not essential to be able to appreciate music, it can open up new avenues of thought with regard to the listening experience and the analysis of pieces of music. Conversely, an ignorance or disregard of music theory is also not essential to be able to create unusual music which defies certain conventions.

Just to keep on topic a bit, I’ve got to say that I don’t really see the big break in SR’s music starting with Adult. Sure there are differences, but I also see many similarities to Kyouiku. In fact, I think you could take any of SR’s albums and find many similarities with the immediately previous album but greater differences compared to earlier albums. But who knows, maybe as she puts out more albums a clear distinction between old and nu-Shiina will become more apparent. I just don’t see it yet.

[HEDOfloe]

I had not heard this album, or much of TJ in a while, and then it just blew my mind again. Uki is definitely my favorite guitarist ever. I love how super talented Miyavi is, but the sounds that Uki makes are just my absolute favorite. Not to mention it's being couple with other extremely talented musicians.

Tegami is such a good song. Wow. It leaves me just as breathless as Ringo is at the end of it. That part where she sings a really long note and Uki does a sort of solo with her is just amazing.

[Cosmo!]

I've been on a Tokyo Jihen binge lately after having neglected them for a few months, and Adult is still my favorite Jihen album. I can appreciate the garage sound of Education and both albums feature great songwriting, but my heart belongs to Adult. I think Ringo's vocals are at their height here with Keshou Naoshi, Superstar, Yukiguni and Tegami, and I actually like Uki's playing (as opposed to Variety, where I HATE HATE FUCKING HATE it).

[HEDOfloe]

Yea, I've been going over their three albums over and over now too. I really love the first 4 songs on Kyouiku, but I think it just gets too noisy with Crawl and Service and I don't really like genjitsu that much but then it finishes strong. I can't get the same feeling from Yume no Ato anymore, though, after hearing the HF version. I like the orchestration better, but mainly the vocals. I think the scratchy, rougher one on HF really works better to get the emotion through.

I think ADULT is better as a whole not just because it's a dream come true for me, but because the "weaker" tracks are not as experimental or all out as the Kyouiku ones. Even the crazy sounding Toumei Ningen can't help but catch me with that awesome intro.

Omatsuri Sawagi is an amazing song, btw. The effects they used on the live of it for both Phases seem to just go perfectly with what the song is. Amazing.

[digdad]

Originally Posted by HEDOfloe

I don't really like genjitsu that much but then it finishes strong.

Really? I thought you'd be all over this song. I've always thought Hirama's guitar work in this one was very Uki-like.