[TJ] 2007.08.22 - Killer Tune (CD) [Single]

[Tokyo Jihad]

Originally Posted by justriiingo

I wonder how SR and Uki will react if they ever chance upon this forum.
I hope they get a good laugh.

I hope it makes her feel like she needs to prove something again.
Prove she was "the truth" all along, or was full of shit all along


And this isn't about "rock" in the "guitars" sense, Hedo. To an extent, it never was (however, its always appreciated in my book.) It's "rock" in the philosophical, "integrity" sense. Her "choices" in these last two years (if not 3 or 4) have all essentially undone she had built up in the first place and seems to say either "I don't want to be a person like that anymore (because its not as easy to sell)" or "I never was truly that person (but sold at the time, and have moved on to what can sell now)" Either way, my opinion of Shiina lately is the lowest of the low. I cannot stomach to hear her old stuff because now I can't but suspect it was all an act. Ii don't know what is worse: putting out a show like JCHI, or putting out a show like DO and not have it be from the heart -- but I do know which is more heart breaking.

[HEDOfloe]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

I hope it makes her feel like she needs to prove something again.
Prove she was "the truth" all along, or was full of shit all along

Please, she is no one hit wonder. From what I can gather, you liked all her music up to ADULT, so was that all a fluke? Highly doubtful.

[Tokyo Jihad]

Read my edit

[Op2]

Originally Posted by HEDOfloe

Please, she is no one hit wonder. From what I can gather, you liked all her music up to ADULT, so was that all a fluke? Highly doubtful.

Actually Tokyo Jihad liked Adult too, and it was evident in his review of the album. He was one of the first people to review the album, and his review actually inspired my later insights in the album. Tokyo Jihad used to be really pro-Jihen until some random event caused him to hate Phase 2. I think Ukigumo took a dump in his mouth or something. Either way, I miss the old Jihad. ):

Don't believe me that the man who takes every opportunity to bash Adult and Phase 2 liked TJ before? Read his review on the album he "hates".

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Okay. with that said. The album is better than Kyoiku, without having as many flooring tracks as it had (very much like KSK opposed to SS -- strong album, very self-sufficient songs, but no real "that's a single!" moment). I may dare to venture saying its better than MM, but I'll hold off on that for a while.

I wrote about each individual song, I'll pick out the highlights and try not to spoil much. The bolded parts will be my thoughts on second listen.

HIMITSU Sounds very different than it did live. As you can expect, more jazzy. But really more baroque jazz in the chorus. The style is all over the place. Sounds messy. This is the case throughout the entire album. Each song trues to exemplify every and any genre it can. Also, they don't like to repeat. They'll play each chorus and verse differnt from the lastin many of these songs. Which is why the albums confusing on first listen. I still say they coulda done a good R&B song with Himitsu, seriously!

KENKA JOUTOU Same song we’ve heard. Yeah, the album is starting to pick up now. I like it more after hearing it paired with Himitsu than I did as a stand alone track. Still not understanding the choice of this song as a PV.

KENSOU NAOSHI : I don’t even remember the 40 sec clip of this. 40 sec clip of a 5 minute track – “oh my gosh song was so spoiled for me!” Sounds very “Smokey and Miho” if you’ve heard them.

SUPERSTAR - For me, this was my "make or break track on the album, if they woulda fucked this one up, I woulda been heartbroken my gosh, sounds like White Album (Beatles)! Top 4 Shiina song evar. They pulled through, I'm thoroughly excited about this song. I miss Hirama's crunchy guitar, Shiina should scream at the end.

SHURABA - if you didn’t like the single ver, I cant imagine you liking this one. Its more or less the same. More of these unimpressive guitar licks. Less electronics. Better guitar bridge than the dumb “ant” thing. Not quite the Stem-kuki analogy everyone was hoping for. Yeah, I’m liking this guitarist less and less. But loving Izawa! Ooh, picks up at the end. Still, I don’t think many will argue that the single ver is the superior. Yeah, this guitarist is arse. Not a fuckin rocking bone in his body.

YUKIGUNI - Great example of the Adult-sound. This song is everywhere on the radar, so hard to comment on. Yet reminds me of Genjitsu no warau, yet sounds nothing like it. This is VERY ksk. Leads into Kabuki.

KABUKI - Starts off with each band member showing off how good they are at their instruments. Then Shiina comes in. Very seductive, ver Shouso -- for a change! They add the effect to her voice, sounds like the effect they add to Shirley Manson's voice in EVERY Garbage song. So if you like Garbage, luckily I do.

BLACKOUT - Now in stereo! With added audibility. Yeah, sounds better when yer not hearing it through stereo speakers through a comp mic. Not a whole lot to say since we’ve all heard it. If you haven’t – think Sounan, but more “celebratory.” Still a shame theres not a kicks ass rock break in here that will cause the lights to burst. –It is called Blackout after all. But its still a great track. This guitarist can’t rock. Period. He’s so far back in the mix, its hilarious.

TASOGARE NAKI - . I’m digging this song like nothing else. Like a song Sinatra would sing, cept Shiina style. Hah, I’m loving this song. Think “More” off UM, with out the electronics. great song

TOUMEI NINGEN - Starts totally different. Sounds like “Surfin Safari” at the start. Then kicks into more of what we know. Cept with stupid sounding country guitar licks. More poppy than before. Actually, fits the Bokoku Jyousho role pretty well Continues the Adult-esque motto of not-repeating things. They play each chorus different from the last. As i said, initially confusing.

TEGAMI - : Sounds brilliant ... Yume no Ato, Izon Sho – move the fuck over. Now we hear the crunching guitar we SHOULDA heard in Blackout and Superstar. Where was this guitar the other TEN TRACKS?? This is a fuckin song, folks.


So there's my take on the album. It really is great. Really. In a KSK way, so stick that (Adult == SS) thought process elsewhere. Shiina needs to persuade Hirama in rejoining the group. Seriously. I'll have to change my sig tho. My fav 3 tracks gotta be Superstar, Tegami, and Tasogare Naki, definately. You know what. Its better than MM.

I realize, someseem to consider me very "Shiina fanboy-ish" so I'm always inclined to find the good. So if you're one for not waiting or the disc, write your review here too! Or in another thread if youre too cool for this one. I am dying to hear other's thoughts on Adult

There you go, he said Adult was better than Shouso Strip and Muzai Moratorium. People don't just change opinions, so I am sure the Jihad is putting on an act and then secretly listens to Adult on repeat.
Tokyo Jihad... what corrupted you to the dark side?!

[Tokyo Jihad]

Everything that came out afterwards was total shit and was dumped right on top of the previous of her career.
And I was clearly on honeymoon intoxication if I said better than SS and MM.

EDIT: i say that nowhere in the review tho. at least what was quoted, i know I said it was better than at least one of those albums initially tho. But as i said, "ringo-coloured glasses" but no, even before I grew to relent Shiina, i never thought Adult was shit.

Edit2: nice fucking edit too Heavens, we wouldn't want one post where Op doest say something snide in regards to Jihad.

...and its not my fault the apple rotted (or was plastic all along)

[Op2]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Edit2: nice fucking edit too Heavens, we wouldn't want one post where Op doest say something snide in regards to Jihad.

...and its not my fault the apple rotted (or was plastic all along)

How is that snide? You said the review, not me. XD
Speaking of Heisei Fuuzoku, you didn't think it was a peice of shit before, either. Infact you said...

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

...its good, but not 5/5. Ops historically a bigger fanboy than me, and I came in ready to shred HF to pieces, and his review seemed more critical than mine.

So what exactly did you hate again? It seems to me you liked everything?

[Tokyo Jihad]

You see, theres this thing where, at least for me, when I "sign off" on an artist and say "oh this is one of the three best music acts in the world, and i'm not even sure who #3 is!" when they slip up, you really, really want to give em a pass if they slip up. Oh, its just a phase, it'll pass! Oh, its not a true album, doesn't count. Its because of this that or the other this was so bad, but look what goodness is there deep within the badness. As people tend to get pissed at me when I say they're looking through "ringo-coloured glasses" -- I certainly historically did. I made no mistake of pointing that out in my adult review which you so kindly even bolded for me. My exact words, I was inclined to find on the good.

I didn't want to write a scathing review on an artist I signed off on, I tooted my horn about, I said 40 years from now this act will be in the history books and if not, everyone knows they should. Because when you make such a grande-remark, you don't want to be proved fucking wrong. The Beatles fucked up with Magical Mystery Tour, but they were given a pass and they gave us The White Album! They then dropped the ball with the Get Back Sessions, but that all smoothed over with Abbey Road and no one argues Beatles validity today. Shiina fucked up before, but "we" gave her the pass and she had a tendency to come-back. However, there comes to a point when she keeps revisiting her mistakes, and seemingly embraces them that makes you take a step back and re-evaluate the situation.

Shiina had JCHI, all the HF mess, and shes coming back to show for it with fucking Osca, the mess that is Killer Tune, and a bucket full of songs Shiina is disowning from her name. Thats not too much to cause for optimism.

When Osca came out, I had little fuel in me tofuel the spin-machine to spin a "good" take on that. Howevva, if you go and look at my Osca review, you too will find out its not all that bad -- nor was Killer Tune tho its a song that got exponentially worse each time I heard it to the point that I can't bring myself to listen to it anymore.

Essentially the point is, its not the mark left at ground zero, its the impact felt later on that really counts. Plenty of great movies and albums or shit-canned out of the gate, but now are considered great.

EDIT: and my "snide remark" that i noted was not at all about the review, i've directed people to it many times. It was regarding the apparent edit you made adding "oh he probly listens to Adult on repeat" remark.

[Op2]

Mmm... I think I know you better after reading that.
I don't see how you can enjoy music like Shiina Ringo or Tokyo Jihen if you just try to find the good, looking over everything you hate. I don't see how that can be enjoyable at all. A song should give pleasure; one shouldn't have to try to pick out the bad parts, or just let is "pass".

I still don't understand why you keep giving them more chances though, if clearly they don't deserve it, at least in your opinion?

[Tokyo Jihad]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Lulz, I'm liking this album (and my decision to abstain from what is likely the remainder of Shiina's career) more and more with comments like this.

Chances are up. Shiina essentially proved me a fool in thinking she was something greater than she was, someone who had integrity and backbone.

As usual, my words are skewed (or maybe I just poorly wrote them, I wrote many words there.) You're over emphasizing the "looking past the bad" when in reality it was just "finding the good." It's really like "Well, The Beatles oter work was so great, so there must be some greatness here too even if it doersn't look like it on first glance..."

I don't see how you can enjoy music like Shiina Ringo or Tokyo Jihen if you just try to find the good, looking over everything you hate.

Ive said the very words to others now haven't I?

[HEDOfloe]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

I hope it makes her feel like she needs to prove something again.
Prove she was "the truth" all along, or was full of shit all along


And this isn't about "rock" in the "guitars" sense, Hedo. To an extent, it never was (however, its always appreciated in my book.) It's "rock" in the philosophical, "integrity" sense. Her "choices" in these last two years (if not 3 or 4) have all essentially undone she had built up in the first place and seems to say either "I don't want to be a person like that anymore (because its not as easy to sell)" or "I never was truly that person (but sold at the time, and have moved on to what can sell now)" Either way, my opinion of Shiina lately is the lowest of the low. I cannot stomach to hear her old stuff because now I can't but suspect it was all an act. Ii don't know what is worse: putting out a show like JCHI, or putting out a show like DO and not have it be from the heart -- but I do know which is more heart breaking.

I know its not about rock and guitars, I thought it was about not liking the ADULT style in general, not just the guiiitar, but apparently you just don't like Ringo anymore.

How do you think she could have "acted" and made the albums you loved and then just became who she really is? I wish I could "act" like someone I'm not and make a masterpiece like KZK. IT'S NOT A FLUKE. You can have all your reasons for not liking the new music or not liking the old one any more but its not just a run-of-the-mill thing that just happens when you try to do what is "in" at the time or what sells. Seems to me like she was actually going against the system, as if it wasn't clear enough, even Ichiro said how hard it must have been for her to do what she did. Not that he is a music expert but he is a fellow japanese person who saw her go through it in a less distant way than either you or I have. How could all of this have been an act?

You can not like the new music, but you can't just say its pure pop. I'm pretty sure it was you that said that whatever genre TJ tries to be they are still rock (granted, it was before Killer tune) and even now they or not just a "pop" act. It's just music you don't like. Can you really blame her for choosing to let other members of the BAND actually WRITE the some of the music they play?

The part I really don't get is how you praised adult, but then when you hated her other work you then said that it is trash now. If you can't enjoy it anymore, thats all candy-dandy but it doesn't mean you should trash it like its bad or like you never liked it in the first place.

You don't have to like everything she makes to know that it is good. You bashed HF and that was straight up good orchestrated music but like you said before, you don't like it all orchestrated, you like it in small doses like Tegami. So what was bad about that? The fact that she used old lyrics must be it because the songs sound nothing like their original versions. You bashed ADULT and JCHI for who knows how many reasons and it all really comes down to your not liking the kind of music, not to it being badly produced or badly played.

If anything, answer me this: why is it that you hate Ringo for songs that she didn't even write?