Speculations on the "real" style of shiina (long long read)

[Ringo~Bingo]

Originally Posted by justriiingo

All I know is that SR doesn't excite me anymore.
And that's a very sad thing

I never thought about it that way until I read that, though I still buy everything she releases, I completely agree that there is little excitement anymore, here is hoping to phase 3.

[golem09]

Originally Posted by NIMH Rat

Every single thing they do may not appeal to one particular set of preferences, but imagine if it did.....I think that would be very boring.

Yes, that would be kind of boring, IF SHIINA WAS THE ONLY MUSICIAN I'D LISTEN TO.
I have other artist for other genres, and they ALL tend to stick to their genres and styles.

[Tokyo Jihad]

Its been a long time since I've declared "PWNmnt" on the forums, but its clear to me that the golem was clearly "resting up" in the OT this whole time to lay some pwn in this thread

Originally Posted by TeslaGuy

The inevitable Jihad jab at HF, an album that was never mentioned in this thread, and one that from conception through completion was mostly uninfluenced by Ringo's band. The first time I heard it I was disappointed and annoyed, but I kept it in my portable CD player and it only took a few days for me to start really enjoying it. I gradually dishabituated myself from the songs original versions and began to appreciate the songs on their own merit. I've listened to it 100+ times now, and while have admittedly never warmed to a couple of the tracks, count the two Nadataru Orchestra songs among my all time favorites. Perhaps they are not "great", but I still consider them excellent. And I don't demand that all of Ringo's output be "great". Any artist who explores as many avenues as she does is bound to have some variation in quality. If her next two releases of new material are mediocre, then I'll start to get worried.

Yeah, HF doesn't get the flack that I think it deserves, people more readily jump on Variety and ignore HF. So I take my jabs at HF just to drive home that the whole year of 07's offerings were sub-par, not just Variety, and that its not just Uki (and Izawa as some people omit)'s fault.
Here's the thing with HF, we got 5 original tracks on it, 7 re-do's, and the 1 cover. Of the five originals, we had already HEARD THREE by release. And of the remaining two HF originals, one was written by Uki.

Now the re-do's, which I feel is where the true robbery is. Only Gamble and Yume no Ato are actual, new, arrangements. Three were straight outta Baishou Exstasy, and Yokushitsu and Poltergeist are an out right offense to her fan base. I doubt any part of Poltergeist was re-recorded. It literally sounds like they pulled the KZK tapes 3 days before they had to go gold, fudged with the vocals and called it a day. Yokushitsu, I also question whether anything was re-recorded, but at least it sounds like some effort was put into it -- even if it was two versions of one song just mixed together.

So essentially we were expected to pay whatever the price for Hatsukoi Shoujo, an Uki song, a new ver of Gamble, and a UM-reject, and stuff we had already heard. I think its offensive. I admit, I was not enthusiastic about BX when it came out, but I could appreciate it in its place. I cant, however, be expected to appreciate the same damn arrangements again. If youre going to explore new renditions of existing songs this way, its the lesser evil at least. (Having a NEW approach would be EVEN BETTER. And don't get me started about a new album, that seems just unfathomable at this standard.) It's telling her fan-base "please buy these songs you've already bought before."

Now I completely understand the why for. The deadline to lock the soundtrack down came too fast so Shiina and Saitou Neko had to scramble. I get it. They were contractually obligated to push something out for the movie. I totally get this, I understand these things happen. But, in the end of the day, that might me a tiny footnote message in the Shiina-history book. The facts behind HF is going to be obscured and forgotten and all thats going to stand is the record. All people will notice is "well Kuki sounds the fuckin same."

So if it were me, if I was in a contractual bind and had to slap a record out to meet my end of the bargain, I would feel obligated to make it up to my fans. I realize it was a gip, I think many other artists would do similarly. However, what did the fans get out of Shiina after HF? VARIETY. To make up for padding out an album, she gives us an album thats totally devoid of that Shiina-magic. At least HF had Hatsukoi Shoujo.

Someone needs to print this thread out, mail it to Shiina and tell her to get her shit together.
RETRO EDIT: Also, give a Shiina CD to Elton John.

[golem09]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Someone needs to print this thread out, mail it to Shiina and tell her to get her shit together.

Didn't I read this before somewhere in this forum?

[frecklegirl]

One thing about HF, it wasn't just contractual. Ringo was friends with the director, and she asked Ringo personally to do the soundtrack. It was a friend's request, Ringo liked the sound of the project; she couldn't turn it down. I do think they scrambled towards the end but she accepted the project of her own volition.

[Tokyo Jihad]

I didn't mean to imply she was FORCED to do the project. I meant by there was a contractual deadline to meet.

[TeslaGuy]

Originally Posted by justriiingo

I was already thinking that after the release of Adult... and then I got HF, Variety, and Senkou Shoujou - not one, two but three mediocre releases!
(snip)
All I know is that SR doesn't excite me anymore.
And that's a very sad thing.

Sigh. When that happens it certainly is a very sad thing. That's happened to me with Puffy. I so loved their Tamio Okuda/Andy Sturmer produced albums, but the latest two releases just leave me feeling indifferent and unenthusiastic about their future. I have more hope for Ringo, but its hard to have much anticipatory excitement about Watashi to Hoden.

Originally Posted by golem09

I have other artist for other genres, and they ALL tend to stick to their genres and styles.

Some of my favorite artists stick with one style, and others evolve. Both can be a good thing. Steely Dan haven't changed much in 35 years (thank god), but Cornelius sounds nothing like he did in 1993.


Concerning HF, it's Wikipedia page has an interesting main paragraph, but its rather hard to follow.

"Shiina Ringo intended to make the music that was considerably processed at the start. She was going to make an album like this first, and she was going to reconstitute the sound selected from that by a computer in the next. She made some demos of the instrumental music, but she noticed that she wasn't requested to make such a sound from the director side at all. Therefore, she decided to record some her songs that Saito Neko had written the music score for the orchestra of live in the studio incidentally. As a result, she made this album instead of the sound track, and offered the movie some songs as they were from this."

[Tokyo Jihad]

So can anyone confirm the situation stated in the Wiki about HF?

If so, then I get to feel even more gipped since we got gipped out of, what sounds like, an album full of Hatsukoi Shoujos.

And you really feel that way about Puffy, Tesla? I thought Splurge had some of their best tracks (Call me what you want, Radio Tokyo, Nice Buddy, Hajimari no Uta) and I thought Honeycreeper proved that they could really do no wrong. =(

Shinji, and for those that can't make heads or tails of the HF article, it seems to say she originally wanted to make the Sakuran sounstrack with the band, but couldn't since Hata was injured. The album was going to be making heavy use of computer noises and samples (like Kid A?) she even had working demos. But the director did not agree with this style of approach for the movie's soundtrack, so she fell back on Saito Neko.

Of course, there is ZERO citation, and its all news to me. Frex? Neko? Mugg? Scherbert?

[Nimh]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

So can anyone confirm the situation stated in the Wiki about HF?

Doubtful. Probably B.S. like most of Wikipedia.

[TeslaGuy]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

And you really feel that way about Puffy, Tesla? I thought Splurge had some of their best tracks (Call me what you want, Radio Tokyo, Nice Buddy, Hajimari no Uta) and I thought Honeycreeper proved that they could really do no wrong. =(

Unfortunately, yes. And it breaks my heart. My Puffy passion equaled the intensity of the most rabid Ringo fans on this forum. I own just about everything up to 2005. I fell in love with albums like Jet, Spike and Nice immediately. Front row at every NYC concert. I gave a Puffy CD to David Bowie. But I find that their post-Okuda/Sturmer material is missing an essential element that made their music magic to me. It's not as clever. The '60's and '70's pop references are missing. The pristine production values are gone. Even the hooks aren't as good.
I really liked the Oriental Diamond single, and was excited about Honeycreeper, but Tamio appears nowhere else on the album, and Andy seems to have disappeared altogether.
Most fans like the new stuff, and Ami and Yumi seem happy, and I do think their music is still good, and I keep listening to Splurge and Honeycreeper, trying to fall in love with these albums, but something is gone. And it makes me sad. But it does allow me to empathise with the long time SR fans here, even though I have only listened to her music for a couple of years.