Jihen at COUNTDOWN JAPAN 2009

[Tokyo Jihad]

Oh my god. Fuck that. I'm a misogynist AND a homophone because I said neko had a sore labia for coming out of nowhere and spinning my post and creating a shit storm? That's a load of horse shit coming from you (Feckle Girl) and completely unfair and unwarranted. With the way he posts you can't deny he isn't a gigantic sore vagina.

Seriously Freckle Girl. UGH.

EDIT: Also you two MORONS need to get off your high horse soap boxes and invest in fucking dictionaries and look up misogynist and homophobe and see how what I said fits those definitions in any way other than "women have labia."

[kuro_neko]

this is the last I'm going to say on the matter because I think frecklegirl has a point and I am 50 percent of this problem, so I'm willing to admit that I went over the line and should be responsible for 50 percent of the solution. frecklegirl is right and I'm sorry I sometimes let my judgment lapse.

now, responding directly, both frecklegirl and myself DO know what said terms mean and neither of us are morons. I'm gay, she is a women, and I think both of us together have more combined experience dealing with misogyny and homophobia than you'd expect. Both of us have dealt with said issues in the US and abroad and are tolerant, but your comments are both homophobic and misogynist and here is why. If you were having an argument with scribble or with any other male user, I'd doubt you'd suggest they have a sore labia, rather, you'd probably call them a douche bag or a dick. in posts with myself, you almost entirely resort to using feminine terminology, in a way that I've never seen, after *years* of posting together with you here, with any other member. why is that? because I'm one of the few openly gay members on the forums and I've made it public enough where it is an easy target. I've suggested in the past you might have more sensitivity coming from a person with a disability, but I've never directly targeted your *specific* disability and I think most members new to the forums probably have no idea what it is I'm referring to. good, lets leave it that way. but the point is that there is a line that most people won't cross and while I take personal jabs about lazytown and other things, I wouldn't step that far into the personal, I do have respect for you. I don't think you hate gays, I don't think you are a prejudiced or closed minded person, I don't even think your a homophobe, but by segregating me from the rest of the community with feminine terminology and implying that because I'm gay I WOULD have a sore labia (if I was being pissy), that is mildly homophobic.

MORE, it is misogynistic. misogynists are traditionally thought of as men who hate women, but it usually isn't as easy and outright as that. Misogyny is something that is built deep into a consciousness of an entire culture. Eminem Bonnie and Clyde, Pretty Woman The Departed, I don't think you'd immediately think to refer to an Oscar winning best picture as misogynistic in nature, but there are plenty of studies out there to read. point is, misogyny is something *everyone*, man or woman, straight or gay, deals with, because it is a part of our culture (specifically, American culture). while I don't think you are misogynist, the comment certainly is. Why? because the comment is meant as an insult and meant to imply someone with a sore labia would be all the things you've called me up to know in this argument, basically implying I'm unintelligent, bi-polar, and emotional. Why would someone have a sore labia to begin with? Are you implying something else? probably not, but the comment itself speaks more than you've probably intended it to. further, your a hetereosexual white male and despite what you think should and should not be offensive, the fact that someone other than myself, who is a woman, feels the same way should be enough of a warning sign.

Considering most of the world is built on patriarchy, it isn't surprising that deep misogyny is built into our subconscious. Great minds have been misogynist, its a not a surprise, the wiki lists Buddha, Aristotle, and Socrates among some of history's more notable misogynists.

point being, when it comes time to sharpen the claws and play ball you resort to degrading me by segregating myself with feminine terminology, and that fact in itself both links a negative connotation with being gay and being a woman to other negative qualities, such as being emotional, tempermental, nagging, unintelligent, etc etc.

that's pretty much it, I've moved on from this fight and I just wanted to respond to what frecklegirl said and say my peace, sorry to bring it back up.

[frecklegirl]

Jihad: I'm a feminist and a woman, and I know misogyny when I see it. You're a man, and so you're blind to it unless you choose to open your eyes. It's that easy. *shrugs* Plus, what neko said on the topic.
(Protip: No one wants to admit they are doing things that are homophobic or misogynist. And yet, they do. So just because you declare you aren't one doesn't mean your behaviors don't fit right in line with the definition.)

I'm proud to say I very rarely, if ever, witness examples of misogyny on these forums, despite the fact that there's a male majority that posts. I'd like to keep it that way.

All I did was tell you to cut out the vicious personal attacks, and you insulted me and neko in return. I'd say a temporary ban looks very likely right about now, so I'd advise you to get rid of the nasty attitude. I don't know what's got you in such a bad mood but no one here deserves to have it taken out on them, even if they "provoked" you first.

[Tokyo Jihad]

You really cant see why I could be in a bad mood Freckle Girl? Are you fucking blind? (Oh no! I've offended out blind user base!) I post here maybe twice a week now, aim to honestly stay out of trouble and not post things that would cause total derails (look at my posts not involving neko here.) Yet here comes this guy seeking me out and purposely aiming to derail and needle me which then causes me to defend myself (and believe it or not I'm a little tired of doing this dance with him, so yes I've gotten more and more crass,) and whats my reward have him obviously bait the "quick trigger" mod to come and chime in and call me hurtful and outrageous names. Why the FUCK to do you think I'm upset?? "Oh just ignore him" you know what I would and I do but whats 100% unfair is that if I do so he comes and still brings in his mess on me, and I'm not supposed to defend myself? I'm just supposed to let that shit go on?

So Im a man so obviously I'm blind to it. Now thats quite the negative assumption towards men -- which is blatant misandry. Not that I care, but my girlfriend says stuff like that gives feminists a bad name.

Apparently any reference to female anatomy in a negative light is now misogynist (since i doubt saying that to a girl would be conveyed as anymore sensitive.) Yet clearly that isnt the case with male anatomy. So, double standard which i fail to see as any more altruistic.

And how fucking DARE you call me a misogynist for me saying the word 'labia' -- who fucking cares? I know YOU didn't fucking care when others were trotting out handicap offenses (neko included) towards me. You turned your blind eye COMPLETELY to that. Not that but you said so right to me, point-fucking-blank. You later ask me to not make jokes at your expense because everyone was ganging up on you at the forum, and I comply -- even then. Even after you took a dump right in my face. Now I say "labia" and you condemn me and bring out the pitchforks? How dare you, dumb self-centered shit. Have fun modding jpopsuki 2

[frecklegirl]

What are you talking about? When Op2 was calling you names for being handicapped I was completely offended. We were friends back then and I had your back on that stuff. I'm not sure why you forgot all about that, but I had a lot of sympathy for you back then and anger at the people who were doing it. I would still never just accept that even now.

Anyway, whatever. I told both of you to stop and apparently that was just an attack on you.

[Tokyo Jihad]

As i recall your words were "I don't see what's so offensive" but lucky us I cleared my pms so I can't back that up unfortunately. That was said and images posted stayed prominently displayed for a week or so.

Uh and I believe I am a woman and gay hater (whereas neko gets a finger wagging for referencing something from half a decade ago, good grief) so somehow my end was a little more offensive. Believe it or not I don't want to put up with your shit and games either.

[frecklegirl]

I maintain that what you said was misogynist/homophobic and neko explained why, even if you don't believe it. *shrugs* It's not name-calling. I didn't call YOU that; I labeled what you said with a proper term describing it. Calling someone a "sore labia" is wildly unacceptable and that fact does not change.

I sometimes take hiatuses from the forums and if another mod isn't around, things are not dealt with on time. I only vaguely recall what happened with that but I think the image thing occurred while I was away. If it was left up, it was not due to willful neglect on my part but rather an accidental oversight. I would not stand for that and I don't believe that's what I said or what I did. I am sorry you've misinterpreted me all these years but that's not who I am so I wouldn't have done that.

ANYWAY. Sorry, everyone. I tried to get the thread back on track and ended up participating in another derailing. Jihad, I won't respond after this. Everyone else, please help get things back on topic.

[Orenji]

Okay, have I said that I love the dress Shiina was wearing?

[s3r3nity]

What did it look like?
Unless there were pics already posted and I missed them.

[Scribble R]

I come here, see a handful of posts, think there's news or something, and...lol

s3r3nity: Yeah, I posted pics and a link a few pages back.