New Game: Ringo's "rare" compositions

[waxringo]

i had no sleep and i read the rules like 3 times and i never read that
you ruined the game


whatever
i ruin everything

[Lena-chan]

anyway, I'll just continue from the last valid votes, waxringo vote again after me!!! o.o

Suberidai = 1 (-1)
Memai = 5 (-1)
Aozora = 1 (-1)
Shoujo Robot = 2 (+1)
Fukou Jiman = 1
Mayonaka wa Junketsu = 1
Aisaika no Choshoku = 2
Kokoro = 1 (-1)
Rakujitsu = 0 (-1)


Dead:
Kousousei (killed by Osiris12345)
Amagasa (killed by so_cold)
Sigma (killed by mizer_unmei)
Hiyori-Hime (killed by Osiris12345)
Private (killed by Ringo~Bingo)
Fukurande Kichatta (killed by Glathannus)
Hai Hai (killed by mizer_unmei)
Mokuren no Cream (killed by so_cold)
Remote Control (killed by Lena-chan)
Rinne Highlight (killed by bromithia)
Kachuu no Otoko (Killed by so_cold)
Ikenai Ko (killed by Osiris12345)
17 (killed by Glathannus)
Ringo Catalogue (killed by so_cold)
Ariamaru Tomi (killed by ShinjiPG)
So Cold (killed by Glathannus)
Nippon ni Umarete (killed by so_cold)
Shampoo (killed by gekokujyo)
Cappuccino (killed by bromithia
Toki ga Bousou Suru (Killed by Ringo~Bing)
Rakujitsu (Killed by Lena-chan)

[NCORE]

Toki ga Bousou Suru (Killed by Ringo~Bingo)

;_;
Can I use all points to bring it back from the graveyard?
also Ringo Catalogue, aww

[Lena-chan]

c'mon
don't let this game die (again)
;o;

[Glathannus]

This game is broke, but at the very least we have a list of which tracks held out the longest, and which ones died first.

Even if I completely forgot about what I did during my last turn, there's no move I can make that doesn't involve killing at least two tracks. It's the fault of everyone who didn't kill something when they got the chance. If a track is on death's door and you're not killing it or some other track on death's door, then you could at least... give it your +1 or something. Then we wouldn't be trapped right now. If a track isn't worth killing, it should be worth trying to preserve.

The way this game would have ended with a rule like that, is people would have put less points into Memai (and we'd be sitting here with more 2-pointers and 3-pointers among the eight tracks that are still alive) or people would have killed more of these tracks while it was still legal to do so.

So here is a revised set of rules for whatever next game we play:

1.) Every track starts with 8 points.
2.) You have 1 positive point to allocate toward one track. There is no cap on how high of a score a track can achieve.
3.) You have 5 negative points to distribute among the tracks. These points must be spread out among separate tracks until there are only six ten tracks left. When a track has 0 (or negative) points, it is eliminated from the game.
4.) You cannot take your next turn until after at least five four other people have taken their turns. If you wait too long to take your next turn, you cannot make up for 'lost' turns.
5.) At least three of the target tracks (for better or for worse) in your next turn must be different than your last turn, until there are only six tracks left.
6.) When there are only six ten tracks remaining, you only have 3 negative points to allocate, and they must all go into the same track. Rule #5 also no longer applies. You also still have one positive point to allocate each turn.
7.) You cannot kill multiple tracks in the same turn.
8.) You may only assign your +1 to a healthy track, when there is either nothing you could kill, or you actually are killing something in the same turn. Otherwise your +1 must go toward a dying track. In the late game with ten finalist tracks, any track with 3 points or less is considered "dying" for purposes of this rule.

Next game could be based on covers, could be based on PV-less album tracks (in which case we should wait until Sanmon Gossip comes out), or whatever else we want. Whoever starts the next game doesn't have to set it up with these rules, but this latest game was a learning experience (both in what survived and how the rules could have been better), so these revised rules are recommended. I don't think a next game with those rules could break like this latest game did, but if you foresee any other potential problems, I'm open to suggestions.

At the very least I think we should always be taking away more points than we are adding - this was a huge mistake on the very first game. On the other hand if we try to simplify this game by saying there's only one track you add points to, and only one track you take away points from, some tracks (like Memai) would die too quickly without supporters being able to keep those tracks alive. Certain tracks simply could not have been kept alive if people could always subtract 2 or 3 points since the very beginning. I want to keep a more level playing field where neither a majority or a minority is powerful enough on their own to kill any track they feel like during the early game. And if you just give every track more starting points, then the game takes too long to finish. We have to be able to narrow down a large list fairly fast while protecting the underrated or misunderstood tracks, and that's what my system (v2.0) aims to accomplish.

[kuro_neko]

this is why I thought this game wouldn't work.

I think the game works better when you do it the slow way and only add and subtract one point at a time, doing it multiple times won't work unless you can add the same amount as you take away.

I mean come on Glanth, I read your revised rules. Your not allowed to add your point to a "healthy track"? What if you LIKE that track? Moreover, what does that even mean? You would have to define healthy. That doesn't really fit with the whole theme of voting for your favorites and finding a true winner.

I mean reading your list of rules gives me a headache, this is supposed to be fun, you really think people are going to remember all that 20 pages in when there are heated battles? this is taking the joy out of it I think and making it a bit too convoluted.

[Osiris12345]

Okay, I'm kinda confused now.

[Glathannus]

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

I think the game works better when you do it the slow way and only add and subtract one point at a time, doing it multiple times won't work unless you can add the same amount as you take away.

If people subtract more points than they're adding, then everytime someone takes a turn, they're making progress. They are bringing the game closer to the end. You can pretty much figure out that if there's something like 240 total points worth of tracks to begin with, and if you're taking away 4 points from the pool with each turn, then the game won't last longer than 59 turns. In the equilibrium that's so important to you, the finalist tracks get into a never-ending tug-of-war.

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

I mean come on Glanth, I read your revised rules. Your not allowed to add your point to a "healthy track"? What if you LIKE that track? Moreover, what does that even mean? You would have to define healthy. That doesn't really fit with the whole theme of voting for your favorites and finding a true winner.

You're not allowed to add your point to a healthy track IF IF IF you're not killing something else when you COULD be. You just cannot ignore dying tracks. When tracks are a hair away from death, you kill one of the near-death tracks or you boost one of the near-death tracks, or you could even do both simultaneously (to different near-death tracks) if you wanted to. That's the rule. Let's use a portion of your game as an example:

Kabukichou no Joou - 10
Honnou - 7
Gibusu - 1
Tsumi to Batsu - 10
Mayonaka wa Junketsu - 5
Ringo no Uta - 2

Now if we were adding one point and subtracting two, you could give your +1 to Kabukichou no Joou, Honnou, Tsumi to Batsu, or Mayonaka wa Junketsu, so long as you kill Gibusu or Ringo no Uta. If you don't want to kill anything during that turn, then you must give your +1 to Gibusu or Ringo no Uta. If you're willing to kill something, then you can give your +1 to any surviving tracks you want.

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

I mean reading your list of rules gives me a headache, this is supposed to be fun, you really think people are going to remember all that 20 pages in when there are heated battles? this is taking the joy out of it I think and making it a bit too convoluted.

Objection noted. I'm just offering suggestions that are open to debate. Whoever does start the next game can decide on whatever rules they want, but I would strongly suggest it not be you or me. If whoever starts the next game wants things to be more "fun", they should take into consideration what could happen with fewer rules, then decide for themselves which of my suggestions are least important.

Are we starting with a big list?
How many turns do we want the game to last for?
How do you want (and expect) the outcome of this game to be different than a straight poll of all the involved tracks?

These are all things you have to take into consideration. With too few rules, you have a game where people don't feel like they're making progress (other than postcount), or you have a game where progress is steadily and measurably made but people feel powerless to protect their second or third favorite tracks from getting killed off long before the end of the game. This is why I think negative points need to be spread out during most of the game, but if you don't distribute more negative points than positive, then you don't make real progress.

How do you expect participants of your game to be more fair with your game than with a poll? Oh, that's right. You want your 'game' to not have a lot of rules. A contest where a majority makes a difference, and you have next to no rules - is either a poll or a riot. The more rules you have, the less it resembles either one of those things.