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Old 2015.10.04, 07:14 PM   #11
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From what I gather, Jihen were more popular in Japan than Ringo solo- at least it seems that way. However... I really doubt she would have ever made solo albums like her first 3 if she had been in Jihen first. SG I can see because that DID happen during her Jihen phase. But... yeah. KZK? I think that would be off the cards if this way around. But yeah... I do wonder if anyone would have bought into Jihen's kinda blend IF it weren't for Ringo... I mean, IN JAPAN, was she the main appeal or were there other reasons the public liked them? Questions that will never be answered. But are fun to ponder.

There's also the whole Mariko Goto effect. If she was in Jihen first and they broke up, for her to go on and make solo music- is it possible that interest would have waned like Goto's? Quite different artists I suppose- Mariko Goto was far calmer than Midori ever was. But I still don't find her ridiculously different or anything- I just think it's bad luck in her case.
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Old 2015.10.04, 10:32 PM   #12
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This is probably a fair hypothetical?

Hm. After SS she had exhausted all her pre-debut songwriting (short of the out-of-left-field reappearance of Kudamono no Heya last year, 14 years later) so I think anything new was on the table after her first hiatus. And to be honest her only KSK sales were likely residual SS sales -- hell, Utaite Myouri almost outsold KSK, right? -- so she probably would've sold few 100K copies of any new studio album in 2003. And then she's free to form whatever alternate-universe version of Tokyo Jihen she wants and garner a second wave of mainstream appeal.

There are probably some second-wave, Jihen-original fans like myself that never get into solo Shiina in that timeline, though. KSK was my gateway; before I was just putzing around spinning Education, Adult, and Sports a few times here and there.

Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
It has Sake to Geko on it, which I think is quite underrated/overlooked by everyone also. That chorus is so "epic". It's also IMO, the best piece of Izawa playing in all the Jihen albums haha.


It's probably my favorite Izawa composition, though I haven't listened to any APPA in at least a year.
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Old 2015.10.04, 11:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
Tsukigimehime is pretty good too.
Hey, thanks

Re: the first question (My instinct to logic vaguely at things made this a hard scenario to imagine)

The number of tie-ins make it unlikely that Sunny would have existed in its current form (a pretty interesting proposition), but I get what you're getting at. Sunny is a very mature album for me, compared to MM and SS, so for that reason, I feel like KSK was a necessary step where she begins cleaning up her act as a matured artist, and a matured woman (exemplified for me in ZX Yattsuke and KSK Yattsuke (which I feel like I've said before...))

But the way that many people seemed to react to her debuting was "wow this lady is revolutionizing pop music as we know it," so SS to Sunny may have been a more expected step in some ways. Ignoring the Jihen in between, the changes between KSK and SG left me more floored and confused by turns. I had trouble processing it (I am still embarrassed by this naive teen self) and kind of didn't like it, but it wasn't bad so I couldn't give up on Ringo despite my feelings.

But nonetheless, I feel like I definitely would have been face melted by Sunny had it come out after SS!! KSK would have instead been the shocking album. But it would have seemed unnatural somehow. You have to completely rewrite her personal history to fathom these albums being released at different times.

I feel that, personally, the amount of growing up that Ringo had to do between each album is equally as enthralling at the music itself. I didn't get into Ringo through KSK, so as long as she dropped Remocon I would still be praying at her feet

If KSK came out later in her career, I would likely be intrigued but concerned for her. However, I think that for me the rock tracks on Sunny (Jiyuu and NIPPON) would probably be better with her young wailing. She mentioned that her tie-ins are usually written at 100% , and you feel that. For her rock sound, I definitely preferred things that left me feeling wounded afterwards


As for the What if Jihen Came First:

what I've noticed from interacting with a lot of Japanese fans of Japanese rock bands is that they like BANDS. A lot of rock fans may very well have overlooked Ringo by virtue of her being a soloist and a "songstress" (I see the word thrown around a lot in old interviews, idk how recently she began identifying as a "musician") who debuted in the same era as aiko, ayu, hikki, etc.

Having not been there, I'm not sure how the 90s music crowd would have embraced the the style of music that TJ is known for, and am also unsure how capable the non-ringo members would have been at their songwriting etc. in their late teens and early 20s. It would have been cool for something like Hatsuiku Status to have a longer presence on the scene though.

If she dedicated herself to a band that early, it probably wouldn't be anything like the TJ we know today but she was ambitious and set on a major debut from her early days from what I gather, so she would have to get members with at least that unified vision and drive to get there (and skill level? ) I can see band sort of fading out, then leading into a solo career of some success, though I think maybe the interest in female soloists at the time of her debut lent to the attention/exposure that she got? I'm not sure if she would have become AS well-known if her debut wasn't when it was, though she was and is an incredibly talented, thoughtful songwriter and definitely would have found a strong fanbase IMO

wonder what that would have sounded like.
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Old 2015.10.05, 02:56 AM   #14
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Muzai and Shouso Strip happen as per usual. In 2003, she releases SUNNY to great commercial success - however, everyone is baffled by the inclusion of a certain track: NIPPON. Given that the events of the 2014 World Cup never took place, there's no reason for the track to exist. Ringo too is baffled by its inclusion, having no memory of having ever written it. And yet, it does. To prevent a tear in the space-time continuum, the timeline fixes itself by affixing the song to the 2002 Japan - Korea World Cup. As a result, it becomes the main theme of the host nation, and Ringo's nationalist rhetoric beams all over the world, quickly becoming a huge hit. However, this leads to a huge rise in anti-korean sentiment, and the relationship between the host nations subsequently breaks down when a terrorist attack performed by a particularly devout Ringohan member takes place in the heart of Seoul.

Subsequently, war breaks out. South Korea attacks Japan. Japan attacks South Korea. North Korea attacks South Korea. South Korea attacks North Korea. China attacks South Korea. The USA attacks China. Nuclear war breaks out. Soon, the timeline is damaged beyond repair. A 35 year old Ringo emerges from a rift in the space-time continuum and pulls her 24 year old counterpart out of that timeline, and into our own.

Our earth in that universe is doomed. But in 2015, original timeline, a 36 year old Shiina Ringo spends some time collaborating with a woman 10 years her junior who also happens to look exactly like her. She remembers what it was like to really care about the music she made. Her sixth studio album releases in 2016, and it's her best yet.

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Old 2015.10.05, 03:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by K__ View Post
Muzai and Shouso Strip happen as per usual. In 2003, she releases SUNNY to great commercial success - however, everyone is baffled by the inclusion of a certain track: NIPPON.
Somehow the amount of lip service you give Nippon makes me like it more, if not just for the fact that it inspired you to write a new world history.
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Old 2015.10.05, 03:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by K__ View Post
Muzai and Shouso Strip happen as per usual. In 2003, she releases SUNNY to great commercial success - however, everyone is baffled by the inclusion of a certain track: NIPPON. Given that the events of the 2014 World Cup never took place, there's no reason for the track to exist. Ringo too is baffled by its inclusion, having no memory of having ever written it. And yet, it does. To prevent a tear in the space-time continuum, the timeline fixes itself by affixing the song to the 2002 Japan - Korea World Cup. As a result, it becomes the main theme of the host nation, and Ringo's nationalist rhetoric beams all over the world, quickly becoming a huge hit. However, this leads to a huge rise in anti-korean sentiment, and the relationship between the host nations subsequently breaks down when a terrorist attack performed by a particularly devout Ringohan member takes place in the heart of Seoul.

Subsequently, war breaks out. South Korea attacks Japan. Japan attacks South Korea. North Korea attacks South Korea. South Korea attacks North Korea. China attacks South Korea. The USA attacks China. Nuclear war breaks out. Soon, the timeline is damaged beyond repair. A 35 year old Ringo emerges from a rift in the space-time continuum and pulls her 24 year old counterpart out of that timeline, and into our own.

Our earth in that universe is doomed. But in 2015, original timeline, a 36 year old Shiina Ringo spends some time collaborating with a woman 10 years her junior who also happens to look exactly like her. She remembers what it was like to really care about the music she made. Her sixth studio album releases in 2016, and it's her best yet.
Mindblowing. Can I post this on my blog (of course I will credit you)????
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Old 2015.10.05, 03:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by tsukigimehime View Post
Somehow the amount of lip service you give Nippon makes me like it more, if not just for the fact that it inspired you to write a new world history.
A lot of people like the song, and that's cool. But I'm just saying, we were this close to nuclear war.

Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
Mindblowing. Can I post this on my blog (of course I will credit you)????
Go for it. pls just credit "K" and not "K__"
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Old 2015.10.05, 09:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by K__ View Post
Soon, the timeline is damaged beyond repair. A 35 year old Ringo emerges from a rift in the space-time continuum and pulls her 24 year old counterpart out of that timeline, and into our own.

Our earth in that universe is doomed. But in 2015, original timeline, a 36 year old Shiina Ringo spends some time collaborating with a woman 10 years her junior who also happens to look exactly like her. She remembers what it was like to really care about the music she made. Her sixth studio album releases in 2016, and it's her best yet.
OMG! Ringo's been traveling with the Doctor!
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Old 2015.10.05, 02:01 PM   #19
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I feel like watching Steins; Gate again
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Old 2015.10.05, 03:14 PM   #20
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https://deadgrandmablog.wordpress.co...ringo-genisys/

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