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Old 2007.05.03, 07:32 AM   #41
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My copy of the record showed up just now. I'm a little wary about opening it, since my DVD will be showing up soon, and I already have the CD.
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Old 2007.05.03, 09:04 AM   #42
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La Salle De Bain on a decent 5.1 system = Heaven!
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Old 2007.05.06, 06:27 PM   #43
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My copy arrived on Friday and I was glad because I wanted to have it for the week-end over at my parents', where there is a surround sound system for dvd playback. However I encountered a big problem: the sound for the HF tracks didn't play!! Anyone has a theory why? I could play the 5.1 and stereo tracks just fine, but not the whole HF with motion graphics! Well I could see the graphics, but there was no sound!
Could it be that my dvd player needs to be dvd-a compatible? I remember asking about that and no one told me it was the case... Or could it just be a different "codec" ? Anyone else had a similar experience??
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Old 2007.05.06, 07:04 PM   #44
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True DVD-As are proprietary.

This is something of an oddball DVD that tries to have the sound quality of DVD-A, but without the bullshit.

I think your problem, is that your DVD player is confused by audio quality that's more than expected. DVD movies are all 48kHz. The main feature of HF is 96kHz. The bonus features (including the surround sound) are all in 48kHz. And when you're getting the 48kHz stereo, it's the exact same format/codec as the 96kHz - just in a lower resolution.

VLC plays the 96kHz just fine though, because unlike with DVD-As, they have this high-quality audio using the same copy protection scheme as all the other content on the disc. You ever notice those AUDIO_TS folders that are always empty on your DVDs? That's where DVD-As store the audio, and it uses a different and yet-to-be-cracked copy protection. But with HF they stored the 96kHz in the VIDEO_TS folder.

The DVD-As that use still graphics, do so because they include a watered-down not-so-protected copy of the audio in 48kHz, in the VIDEO_TS folder, in-case you don't have a DVD-A player. This is in addition to the 96kHz they store in AUDIO_TS. Having both on the disc together, even if there's plenty of room leftover on the disc and even if you load only one at a time, will leave no bandwidth on the disc for moving picture.

Irony:
HF was able to have motion graphics because they didn't include a (bonus) consumer-friendly copy of the audio.


It is possible to rip the 96kHz, convert it to 48kHz via software, and splice the converted audio together with the motion graphics, to create a DVD that actually will play the motion graphics with sound, on your television. That would be diabolically evil though, since hypothetically you wouldn't be using this DVD for primarily how it's meant to be used. Audiophiles everywhere should be overjoyed at this unprecedented quality/freedom combination. I currently have a WavPack audio rip of the main feature, taking up 1.19 GB. I can listen to the audio by itself, and with all the quality intact, and without any fear of scratching my original disc from all the times it's played. Ironically if this DVD had still pictures, it would have bonus consumer audio taking up the bandwidth that the motion graphics would've been taking, and the 96kHz would be unrippable, and nonaudiophiles would have no reason to buy the DVD. So it's a mixed blessing.
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Old 2007.05.07, 10:38 AM   #45
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Okay, zarya's post has me a little confused. Which audio track(s) play with the PVs?
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Old 2007.05.07, 10:54 AM   #46
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On average DVD players, you can hear the audio for everything but the main feature [HF + Karisome Otome (DEATH JAZZ ver.) all with motion graphics], which is 96kHz. Everything else (including the bonus 5.1 for three songs) is in 48kHz, and plays just fine.

You get jipped on Kono Yo no Kagiri, which isn't a segregated PV, but is crossfaded audibly and visually with Yume no Ato, and it's only on the main feature, which is all 96kHz. They didn't give Kono Yo no Kagiri its own extra/separate DVD Title with 48kHz, so there's hardly any bandwidth left for picture, and it looks like crap too. Motion graphics aren't so demanding, because they're not organic - there's less or no imperfections to keep track of.
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Old 2007.05.07, 11:05 AM   #47
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So the only option to watch the PVs with the music is at 96kHz?

I just want to know if I'll be able to somehow watch the PVs and hear the audio at the same time on my normal DVD player.
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Old 2007.05.07, 11:47 AM   #48
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You have to think of this DVD in terms of, "The Main Feature" is what you might call "The HF Experience", which includes a crossfaded motion graphics series of all the HF songs [including a crappy-looking Kono Yo no Kagiri - nothing else is live action], with Karisome Otome (DEATH JAZZ ver.) on the tail end of the experience. This whole segment of the DVD is all in 96kHz only, and probably won't audibly function on your DVD player.

All of the bonus features (including the credits with condensed instrumentals playing) are in 48kHz and play just fine. The three "bonus" songs that are said to be in DTS 5.1 96kHz, are actually in 48kHz, and extra/optional tracks of 48kHz stereo have been included in the same sequence. These "bonus" songs get their own DVD Title & formatting separate-from/in-addition-to what we'll call "The HF Experience", even if some of those songs are included in "The HF Experience" already! (just not in that same formatting) All the bonus stuff will play in a normal DVD player just fine.

For "The HF Experience", you have to rip the audio and video separately, downsample the audio, splice them back together, and burn your own custom DVD. But like I already said, that's really quite evil, because it's taking emphasis away from what this product is primarily meant to be. Audio took most of the bandwidth, and motion graphics got the "leftovers", which were enough for them with their lack of organic imperfections, but nowhere near enough for Kono Yo no Kagiri. The motion graphics are a bonus and, in my opinion, a distraction (with the particular implementation they used in most of the songs).
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Old 2007.05.10, 10:45 PM   #49
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Hmm, so the three songs supposed to be in DTS 5.1 96kHz actually aren't? Because my DVD player played everything except those--the sound didn't come up. But the other version works, so I guess it's okay.
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Old 2007.05.10, 11:04 PM   #50
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They're in DTS 5.1 48kHz, even though the web advertisements and the sticker outside the shrinkwrap say the DTS is in 96kHz. I'd sue for false advertisement but I'm too much of a positive fanboy for that. Right now I'm still reeling in the happiness of being able to buy 96kHz/24bit downloads that I can ultimately do whatever I want with.

No matter what amount of kHz a DTS track is in, DVD players themselves, don't actually understand DTS, but they can pass the 1s and 0s onto another piece of equipment that can understand the format. You have to use a coaxial rca cable, or optical toslink cable, to send the audio to a home theatre receiver/processor, and then that other piece of equipment knows how to interpret the DTS and you hear it just fine.

DTS is not a standard on DVD players because it requires more intense processing than the Dolby Digital that the players are already standardized to barely have enough processing speed to support. You find DTS with some movies, but it's a low number of them - maybe 1 out of every 5 DVDs for big budget films, and always as a bonus, while Dolby Digital and/or PCM, get included anyway, just so you have a guarantee of being able to hear something.

Those three songs that are supposed to have DTS 5.1, also have 48kHz PCM stereo, which you can toggle through with the audio button on your DVD remote, and you should get playable sound with those videos.
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