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Old 2009.10.26, 05:18 AM   #1
lazer85
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Default Musical properties of Shiina Ringo's music -music theory experts please help

Ok so as part of my self-studying music theory, I decided this is a question I should finally ask.

So I know she uses a slow version of the verse as a bridge alot

But I'm specifically interested in the vocal melodies. Why do so many of them sound so similar in style to Astor Piazolla, Aznavour, lots of old italian and spanish songs, lots of enka songs, maybe some old soul or blues too? Its not just about instruments, the accordian in Bonsai Hada and Ringo no uta don't sound much like Astor Piazolla's accordian at all, her voice sounds like his accordian. The melodies don't sound the same either....thats not what I'm saying. Is it a particular key? A particular pattern?_

Not all of her songs sound exactly the same style but almost all of her songs that are not in a major key have something distinctly similar and I'm dying to know what it is and I finally know enough about music theory to maybe kind of sort of understand it....maybe. Help me out.

This is also something I've noticed about the songs I write and songs I wrote way before I ever listened to Ringo or any Italian or Spanish music.
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Old 2009.10.26, 10:34 AM   #2
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I wish I was knowledgeable enough to participate in this thread...
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Old 2009.10.26, 11:10 AM   #3
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^ that was exactly what I was thinking ='(
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Old 2009.10.26, 11:12 AM   #4
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Hmmm, this is so interesting. I wish people will help you, but as Yahiko and Grumble said, I can't help you either . Keep this thread alive, please.
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Old 2009.10.26, 11:21 AM   #5
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I also find my music knowledge severely lacking.

I'd also like to see this discussion moved forward.
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Old 2009.10.26, 01:14 PM   #6
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lazer85, I want to help but I don't really understand what you're trying to get at. Maybe you could tell me which songs in the non-major keys are similar and we can work from there?
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Old 2009.10.27, 05:33 PM   #7
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I think it's just because she has a taste for european music (which is obvious in the Utaite Myouri project) and also because Roots music like Blues, Tango or maybe Flamenco are obviously a major part of her musical culture (not forgetting ancient french songs...) and naturally come out as she writes songs.
We could have a whole thread about her musical culture which is such a specific quality of her that puts her so above the rest of the japanese scene.
I could add that 10 years ago her alternative-grunge-rock musical culture mostly influenced her and that in today's SG, this is more her american and french 1960's jazz taste that leads her artistic choices.
How many singers will do 3 or 4 versions of the same songs in such different styles as what she did with "La salle de bains", "Kuki", "Ringo no uta", etc...
You just can't do that without a solid and universal musical background.

Hope I helped the thread somehow...
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Old 2009.10.27, 06:44 PM   #8
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I realize I show a lack of understand of music theory, I'm not sure 100% exactly what it is that I'm talking about but what I THINK I mean is:

certain styles of music have different patterns, for example chord patterns that pop up in a ton of songs, some styles even seem to be built around certain chord patterns (Blues, Bossa Nova). Most style of music have a consistent tempo if not use of specific insturments. Some artists prefer a doing songs in a certain key or they overuse a specific chord pattern. Ringo obviously jumps between styles but something about her music (the notes of the vocal melodies specifically) seem to be very consistant to me. Now to someone like me who doesn't know that much music theory, this is just her having a way she likes to sing but I know there is a lot going on in music that I don't understand. I want to know what it is to a music theory expert (a music theory nerd if you will). Are there any patterns, chord progressions she likes to use, or some specific musical property about her vocal melodies that only a music theory-savvy person would understand?

Its hard to point out a few songs specifically (I can try later when I'm not at work) but I'm refering to the bulk of songs on SS,KZK and Heisei and at least a handful of songs on Kyouiku, Adult and SG.
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Old 2009.10.27, 07:02 PM   #9
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I notice you left out MM. WHY?! What you learn as you study Ringo and her compositions are that there really isn't much difference between MM and SS in a purely melodic sense since they were written all about the same time. Here's some patterns I have detected, but you've probably already noticed them if you own her scorebooks or download midi's of hers through google and yahoo.co.jp searches ().

+ Lots of 7th chords!!! (Perhaps too many.)
+ Complex, brisk melodies. Not many Ringo songs are "sparse", and there are rarely any times where an instrument (including Ringo's voice) is not carrying a catchy riff or melodic line.
+ I'm not totally sure about this, but I think she favors certain chromatic notes; particularly G# (in the C major scale).
+ Pay attention to the bass line. When I mimic a Ringo bass line, I find the whole song comes out more "ringo-like".
+ Her song structure is very consistent through her early works. Later works that experiment more with music of other cultures and genres are noticably less "Ringo-like", but of course are still AMAZING. Don't forget Ringo can write a song every-once-in-a-while that sounds nothing like anything else you've ever heard from her. SG particularly is very free-spirited.
+ Swing. Marunouchi Sadistic wouldn't be nearly as good without it.

The other important thing to consider is that Ringo has sung many wonderful songs she didn't write herself, and I believe you could easily mistake TJ-penned tracks like "Gunjou Biyori" and "Killer Tune" for having been written by Ringo. I'd have even more to say, but I already had to re-write this post once.
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Old 2009.10.27, 07:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Entry№1 View Post
+ Lots of 7th chords!!! (Perhaps too many.)
There can never be too many 7th chords!
Bring on the 9ths as well
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