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Old 2007.07.16, 03:18 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
I can like orchestrated music, if theres anything interesting going on.

EDIT: lets go a little further. I can like it if theres one song, maaybe 2, on an album thats more orchestral based. Say Tegami on Adult. So long as the song is good.

HF has a lot more going against than for it. We've heard these songs the proper way before, and they're not even compelling "alt versions" (like say Sid to Hakuchuumu) Hey're not "wild new takes"
Kuki already HAD orchestral instrumentation to begin with in multiple versions! The BX era rendition of Kabuki-Cho, as slow, boring, and bad as it was, at least it was a risky move.
Tegami is sort of orchestrated and since you like it in small doses then it's obvious you would not like the whole album. And don't you think its risky to release a whole orchestrated album when most of her fans became fans because of her rock music? I just get irritated when people say it's boring or dull just because they don't like orchestrated music (or all of it at once). For example, I don't like QUEEN but I'm not going to say it sucks or its dull just because it is not my personal preference. They obviously put alot of work into their music for it to last as long as it has, so by the same token if I didn't like orchestrated music I would not say HF sucks or is dull and just thrash it because I'm not interested in that kind of music. I don't want to seem like I'm telling you what you should or shouldn't say, but I think its irresponsible to bash the album without first stating that you really don't like orchestrated music to begin with. If I were a new fan and saw your review, I would probably never listen to the album and miss out on it.

Also, I don't think its fair to say that you've heard the "proper" version of the songs before. Just because there was an earlier arrangement does not make it any less proper than the HF arrangements.
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Old 2007.07.16, 03:45 PM   #42
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Theyre proper cuz thats the way "they was intended." Any thing else would be an alternate version. Sometimes the alts are better than the original vers, so theres no smack in calling them "alts." However, I used the word "proper" because, ok lets put it this way. If the beatles released "I Feel Fine" and in addition, years later, released "I Feel Fine" but using Ukuleles on record rather than guitars (same song tempo, structure, etc, nothings different at all than some of the instrumentation) then you could safely say the guitar rendition is the "proper" version, regardless whatever would have to have possessed them to release a version of this fashion.

Now then, I wouldnt go to say, an Enya board and call one her albums dull and boring -- even if I may think that, or even if I may air that opinion here. I wouldn't because I'm not exactly a qualified professional in the field of Enya. I don't know how Enya progressed, I dont know her history, and (mainly) I'd be hard-ass pressed to rack up a compelling argument. So just as you saying you dislike Queen, you wouldn't try to argue it in "enemy territory."

HOWEVVA

I just so happen to exactly be a Shiina historian. I do know her progression, I do know her history, and I can and have,and if need be will, pull an argument I can be fairly content in thinking it stipulates my point in compelling fashion. As tough as this may be to grasp, Shiina is not the first person to back some of her older songs orchestra-style. In fact it just so happens my previous analogy band did just that (well, Paul.)
Now sure, I don't know my Chopin from my Bach, howevva' this is not orchestral music. This is still pop/rock whatever kinda music they were billed as in kzk/ss/kyoiku, just with orchestral instrumentation. And there are few albums I know better than kzk/kyoiku/ss forgetting genre. Some music is "orchestrated" but that doesn't mean its suddenly some different genre. And I certainly dont hate the instrumentation, and I love it in cases where its used properly, accentuated, and effective. None of which actually is accomplished in these songs. Were just hearing songs we know "in a new way" -- and thats nothing to think is genius or anything more than, gaspar, a novelty.

Having used the 'N' word there, seems to ask "why spend the effort arguing something that isnt more than a novelty?"

The obvious thing is some people love to argue it is more than that; but additionally, if the album were sans Kuki, Meisai, Ishiki, Yokushitsu, Yume no Ato, and Poltergeist what wed be left with is a far more compelling, more interesting, more focused EP/mini-album in a way that harkens to an even more ambitious KZK. --Unfortunately they padded it so that sunk under weight.
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Old 2007.07.16, 04:53 PM   #43
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I think it would be original version instead of "proper" version because that just means that the HF version of the older songs are improper which is obviously a negative term. In your example, if the ukelele version was good, it would still be improper and I don't think that should be the term for it.

Also, I still think you are reviewing the whole product based on having heard the songs in another arrangement before. It is its own separate product and should be reviewed less. If you like the original version's thats fine but the songs are not bad because the original was better.

And if you are a Ringo "historian" then you could at least say more about the songs than just cutting them down with metaphors and how another song is better than one on the album. I remember before you (or I think it was you) said that it's fine to critique anything as long as it is not just saying it sucks and using something to back it up but how is "Like a loveable pup that was abused and neglected so now its a gnarly, mangy, mean bugger." being critical about anything? You are just talking bad about the song without saying directly that you think it sucks. Might as well just say it sucks.
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Old 2007.07.16, 05:08 PM   #44
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I'm saying that underneath, its a good song, its just not a good rendition of the song. I never said anything was "improper," youre just trying to say I said that. You say you don't think whatever song should be called "improper" -- i didn't call it improper, so then its just you thinking it. Shove that thought aside then.

Its impossible not to compare it to another Shiina recording. Its a Shiina disc, why the hell can't anyone compare it to others? Seems silly to say, how else can you tell if shiina has progressed or dropped the ball? The songs are not only not as good as the originals, they have become "unimpressive" if not outright dull and boring (Kuki, im lookin at you.) Meisai has none of the snazz, pizass, wow, funkiness. Thats what made the song. Its just filler if it has not its personality. If you agree im a Shiina historian, how can I not look back to history? =P

And I am backing up my opinion. My analogy you plucked out is saying its not a bad song, its good underneath. It's just its owner that perturbed it so, unfortnately.

And something I forgot earlier, Tegami is my second fav track on the album, no "small doses" of the song, just small doses of the orchestra so It doesnt seem shoehorned into every track.
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Old 2007.07.16, 06:04 PM   #45
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[Summary of above posts]

Blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah.

[End of Summary]

For the record, I played in an orchestra for several years, but no, the music doesn't quite grab me compared to her other stuff.
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Old 2007.07.16, 06:56 PM   #46
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You're right, Jihad, Paul McCartney's "Give My Regards to Broad Street" is a lot like Heisei Fuuzoku -- new songs + orchestral versions of older songs. I think I feel about the same way about GMRTBS as I do about HF. To me they're not as exciting as the artists' other albums (just because I'm a big fan of completely new work), but I do like them both a great deal. I know that didn't contribute to the current discussion, but whatevs.
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Old 2007.07.17, 04:50 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
I'm saying that underneath, its a good song, its just not a good rendition of the song. I never said anything was "improper," youre just trying to say I said that. You say you don't think whatever song should be called "improper" -- i didn't call it improper, so then its just you thinking it. Shove that thought aside then.

Its impossible not to compare it to another Shiina recording. Its a Shiina disc, why the hell can't anyone compare it to others? Seems silly to say, how else can you tell if shiina has progressed or dropped the ball? The songs are not only not as good as the originals, they have become "unimpressive" if not outright dull and boring (Kuki, im lookin at you.) Meisai has none of the snazz, pizass, wow, funkiness. Thats what made the song. Its just filler if it has not its personality. If you agree im a Shiina historian, how can I not look back to history? =P

And I am backing up my opinion. My analogy you plucked out is saying its not a bad song, its good underneath. It's just its owner that perturbed it so, unfortnately.

And something I forgot earlier, Tegami is my second fav track on the album, no "small doses" of the song, just small doses of the orchestra so It doesnt seem shoehorned into every track.
If one version is "proper" then what would you call the other version?

Also, you're right, you can and should compare any new album to old ones but my problem with your review was that the whole thing was just saying how much better the old songs were to the new ones. If you are going to review the cd I think you should compare it to Ringo's old works but also comment on the aspects of the songs specifically, not just say that the old one is better.

As for your analogy, I don't see how it was critical at all. If it just means that the song is good underneath, then would that not apply to all the songs that had been done previously? They were good until she changed it?

I just think you can't really justify your comments asides from saying you don't like it.
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Old 2007.07.17, 07:01 AM   #48
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Yet again, all you're really saying is you don't like the way I'm justifying my opinion.

See it this way, the songs aren't giving me anything more to think about than the older versions. Thats a pretty big flaw if you ask me, and couldn't arrive at that from my first review.
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Old 2007.07.17, 01:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
Yet again, all you're really saying is you don't like the way I'm justifying my opinion.

See it this way, the songs aren't giving me anything more to think about than the older versions. Thats a pretty big flaw if you ask me, and couldn't arrive at that from my first review.
I guess that's a better way of putting it, but you were still overly harsh in my opinion. But I guess everyone can't help but to be overly biased about everything. I take offense to people criticizing her new work because that is what I like the most and you take offense when they change the work that you fell in love with first.
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Old 2007.07.18, 08:33 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Orenji View Post
I can upload the mp3 file for you, if you want .

Oh yess yess yessssss
Thank you!

Sorry for the late answer lol
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