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View Poll Results: What is your stance on this issue?
Discs of any kind (original or burnt) are for people who balance their checkbooks (or even pay by check at all). Seriously, get on with the times! The compression and/or DRM from the iTunes Store are the legitimate way to go. 0 0%
I claim to "support the artist" by "attending concerts" even though this only happens for 0.1% of the music I would call myself a fan of. The discs I burn might be so much more collectively expensive than buying a hard drive, but they are still so much cheaper than buying the real discs, and I am all about what looks and feels cheap in the short-term. I also have a pay-as-you-go cellphone plan, and I don't think the inclusion of a black man in an advertisement for that is racially motivated at all. 1 25.00%
I'm already open to your idea because I use a Mac, and cost-per-GB or TB hasn't been a factor in my buying decision, plus Macs 'never' crash. Bring it on! 0 0%
I can accept the risks of this idea on the basis that "shit happens". 0 0%
The facts of this thread are reassuring for me to stay-the-course in the direction I was already headed. 2 50.00%
I kinda suspected this was probably true, but I didn't really know any of the numbers or have any feelings about this issue. Eventually I'll probably act on this when the numbers become a bit more favorable. 0 0%
I still have a bitter taste in my mouth after the last hard drive crash I experienced, and your idea scares me. I think you're plotting for an electromagnetic pulse to wipe out everyone's downloads which would have been safe on disc. 0 0%
If you'll excuse me, I'm off to my comfort zone of doing things "the way they've 'always' been". 1 25.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009.08.27, 03:38 AM   #1
Glathannus
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Default Your own personal-use disc-burning is the biggest waste of time and money

1350 of the cheapest CD-RWs (700 MB | 7.61 MB/s read | 600 KB/s write)
amount to 922 GB (at $11.50 per 25) for $621.
It would take at least 447 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 34 hours of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

1350 of the not-quite-cheapest CD-RWs (700 MB | 7.61 MB/s read | 1.75 MB/s write)
amount to 922 GB (at $28 per 50) for $756.
It would take at least 149 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 34 hours of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

1450 of the not-so-cheap CD-RWs (650 MB | 7.61 MB/s read | 3.51 MB/s write)
amount to 920 GB (at $16.50 per 25) for $957.
It would take at least 75 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 34 hours of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

210 of the cheapest DVD+RWs (4.38 GB | 7.61 MB/s read | 5.15 MB/s write)
amount to 920 GB (at $20 per 30) for $140.
It would take at least 50 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 12 hours and 45 minutes of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

1350 of the cheapest CD-Rs (700 MB | 7.61 MB/s read | 7.03 MB/s write)
amount to 922 GB (at $16 per 100) for $216.
It would take at least 37 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 34 hours of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

1350 of the not-quite-cheapest CD-Rs (700 MB | 7.61 MB/s read & write)
amount to 922 GB (at $18 per 100) for $243.
It would take at least 34 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 34 hours of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

40 of the cheapest BD-REs (23 GB | 35.12 MB/s read | 8.78 MB/s write)
amount to 932 GB (at $29 per 3) for $387.
It would take at least 30 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 7 hours and 30 minutes of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

20 of the cheapest BD-R DLs (47 GB | 35.12 MB/s read | 8.78 MB/s write)
amount to 932 GB (at $150 per 10) for $300.
It would take at least 30 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 7 hours and 30 minutes of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

40 of the cheapest BD-Rs (23 GB | 35.12 MB/s read | 8.78 MB/s write)
amount to 932 GB (at $44 per 15) for $117.
It would take at least 30 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 7 hours and 30 minutes of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

115 of the cheapest DVD+R DLs (7.95 GB | 10.3 MB/s write)
amount to 914 GB (at $33 per 50) for $76.
It would take at least 25 hours of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 12 hours and 45 minutes of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

210 of the cheapest DVD+Rs (4.38 GB | 20.6 MB/s write)
amount to 920 GB (at $18 per 100) for $40.
It would take at least 12 hours and 45 minutes of writing time to fill these discs up.
It would take at least 12 hours and 45 minutes of reading time for all the data if these discs were full.

1 of the cheapest hard drives ("1 TB" | 70 MB/s read & write)
amounts to 930 GB at $80 per drive.
It would take at least 3 hours and 45 minutes of writing time to fill this drive up.
It would take at least 3 hours and 45 minutes of reading time for all the data if this drive were full.

Notice how the hard drive of today is 3 times as fast as DVD for twice the price, while being cheaper than Blu-Ray and twice as fast as Blu-Ray? This is why hard drives (and someday solid-state drives) are the solution to the world's problems, and they will continue to get bigger/cheaper/faster at a rate which outpaces the growth of any burnt discs. Within years from now, it will be cheaper to buy one solid-state drive or backup hard drives, compared to what it costs to buy any blank discs.

Please, for the sake of the children, STOP burning discs. Stop abusing and repurchasing your originals, too. Burnt discs of any material you do or don't own, mean you have created something that can and will get disposed of much sooner than and more often than any commercially-pressed discs. I don't want to know how many burnt discs go into landfills.

Now the tragic reason why so many DISCS get burnt is because people think they 'need' disc PLAYERS. They think this, their nextdoor neighbors think this, and you might even think this. As soon as you take disc players out of the equation, all-the-sudden there really isn't so much reason to burn discs anymore, is there? It should also be noted that most of the burning example times listed above need to be even longer if the discs you burn are intended for players, because discs burnt faster more often have problems in players than discs burnt slower, while there's no penalty for writing to a hard drive quickly.

Now repeat after me:
"I don't need a disc player".
Say it in your head. Then say it out loud. Then slowly exhale as much as you can.

Are you still with me here?
Good.

Now, did anyone ever tell you that you can hook a computer up to your television or your stereo to do at least as much as any disc player could do? Did anyone ever tell you these computers don't have to be very big, very costly, or very noisy? Did anyone ever tell you that for a couple hundred dollars more all of this could be controlled by a handheld touchscreen with wireless networking access to the computer player you are controlling? Did anyone ever tell you there are now car stereos for under $150 that alternatively accept USB sticks or portable 2.5" hard drives in addition to CDs?

Did anyone ever tell you that getting some video onto single-layer (4.38 GB) DVD, video which was not already primed for single-layer, is worse than making a VHS copy of a VHS copy? If there's no 'need' for a DVD player, then there's no 'need' to transcode any of the things you have downloaded or ripped. This makes the discs you burn all-the-more disposable.
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Old 2009.08.27, 06:52 AM   #2
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I can't even remember the last time I burnt a disc for anything? for me it's hard drives all the way! I've even suffered a few crashes and lost the lot but it's still easier to fix than having a million CD's all over the place .
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Old 2009.08.27, 10:53 PM   #3
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I pretty much agree with almost everything....

the only personal use discs I've burnt are installers for Windows XP and MS Office.

since ext hdds are so cheap now it does make sense to do double back ups. But $80, really? wow.
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Old 2009.08.27, 11:10 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by justriiingo View Post
the only personal use discs I've burnt are installers for Windows XP and MS Office.
Depending upon your computer, you may unfortunately have to burn Windows install discs even when you have official discs and legitimate licenses, so that you can have certain drivers slip-streamed into the install disc for Windows to be able to recognize your hard drive(s). Some motherboards will let you install Windows off of a USB stick.

I have installed Microsoft Office dozens of times without discs - either off of USB stick, or from loading the installers from across a local network. I don't think I have ever in my life burnt myself a disc for any major application I've downloaded (things you install after you have a working OS).

Even when I legitimately own the software, I still would rather use virtual CDs instead of my physical originals, because a full install off of a virtual CD can take 20 seconds instead of 150 seconds, and that's if you're reading off of a virtual CD on the same hard drive you're installing to. It's 10 seconds if you're reading the virtual CD off of one hard drive and writing to another. I also never re-insert my physical originals whenever one of my PC games demands it, but I don't believe in cracking my games either, so virtual CDs solve that problem.

Someday I won't have to physically grab any of my DVD movies either (the ones I actually own). After all, an $80 drive can hold over 100 full-quality (non-'shrunken') DVD movies with all the menus and audio/subtitle options and everything, and this will only get cheaper.
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Old 2009.08.28, 06:35 AM   #5
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Your argument has persuaded me of its correctness, though I vote the embarrassing Option #2, fitting my current state.

I've even used a Net10 phone for 3 years, and comparison of my bill to that of several colleagues demonstrates I have underspent them by 75%, consistently. I've talked less (less than 150 min/month, fine by me), but my words/minute are cost-effective by necessity. Heavy use would be a disaster, obviously.
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Old 2009.08.28, 07:08 AM   #6
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Pay-as-you-go works most efficiently for something you never use, and it sounds like you are closer to never than you are to the cheapest pre-paid minutes package.

That was just some opinionated/hyperbole/stereotyping on my part, although I really have seen a pay-as-you-go advertisement from Verizon with only a black man on it. Even if I don't have any assumptions about how black people would use their minutes, it doesn't mean that Verizon's marketing people don't have assumptions. I imagine there could be some drama where the black guy agreeing to be photographed didn't know in what context Verizon would use the photo, and then he gets rejected by women who perceive him as "not ready to make any commitments". Or maybe I've watched a few too many sitcoms.
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Old 2009.08.28, 10:40 AM   #7
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i prefer my hard drives, though eventually i'll move up to solid state if they ever come down in price, but they are the way of the future

i haven't burned a disk in forever, it seems the only time I do is to make backups of video games, or when i need to reinstall an OS or something, which even now can be done by usb with enough space
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