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Old 2011.10.24, 04:14 PM   #21
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I would certainly count HF, because she still chose to make those songs, and that's one of the reasons why, if she was going to make a movie soundtrack, Sakuran was perfect for her.

Kabukichou no Jouu is a big one, but there's also the fact that she wears kimono with the obi tied in the front, something historically lower-class prostitutes did. You can see it in Stem PV and other media. And despite the fact that she likes to deny it, the predatory sexuality of Honnou is undeniable.

Okay, maybe there isn't a ton, but it certainly is a running theme. It's all part of a theory I have that, for certain artists who bear their souls on their records, and then go on to sell those records, they are metaphorically selling their souls/bodies. I'm not good at articulating it, but I think many performers have to choose between being an independent person and reacting to the needs of their "fans", which can lead to a compromise of one's self. Uh, I'm not articulating this well, so let's leave it if I'm way off base.

In addition, she seems to take a large amount of influences from Edith Piaf, who wasn't a prostitute herself, but grew up around them and several of her songs featured her singing from the perspective of a prostitute.
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Old 2011.10.24, 04:19 PM   #22
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CD Japan says both songs are played by TJ- I take both songs are written by Ringo too?
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Old 2011.10.24, 04:20 PM   #23
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You said earlier that you think Mika Ninagawa asked Ringo to do the Sakuran music because she knew about Ringo's sex worker imagery. So you can't really say HF counts, because it didn't exist before Ninagawa's request, and that has to make up like 80% of your "evidence."
(I think Ninagawa asked Ringo because they were friends and she knew Ringo was an amazing musician, end of story. Maybe "Kabuki-cho no Joou" helped a little; maybe it didn't. I think it was mostly their friendship, the fact that she wanted to make a "by women for women" movie, and Ringo's solid reputation.)

Would Ringo have written on the theme of sex work if not for Sakuran? I don't think so. I maintain that HF doesn't count. It was written to order, it was not going to exist anyway.

Sure, there's sexuality in Honnou, but sexuality and sex work/prostitution are not the same. I don't see how that's relevant either.

I really think this theory is largely grasping at straws. Go ahead, write that essay though! I'll be interested to see how you prove everything.
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Old 2011.10.24, 04:23 PM   #24
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I dunno, I reckon she woulda eventually have written about sex work regardless, just as I'm sure there's some murder ballads down the line too

You know why? Sex and murder are awesome to write songs about.
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Old 2011.10.24, 05:16 PM   #25
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I'm not really trying to prove anything here. I was just pointing out that sex work is a recurring theme in Ringo's work. Ignoring Oiran in Sakuran (even though I think it still counts, because even if she was asked to, she couldn't just write these songs out of the blue if she didn't already have the capability in her), she still wrote Kabukichou, and she still dressed like a prostitute in at least 2 music videos (Tsumiki Asobi and Stem). It's not really critical, in fact it's something I like about Ringo.
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Old 2011.10.24, 05:18 PM   #26
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More importantly, do the songs kick ass? I can look at dirty pics elsewhere.
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Old 2011.10.24, 05:21 PM   #27
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The one I've heard does indeed deserve to be called Blackout 2. What that means to you will depend whether you'll like it or not.

Also, depends if you like Chiaki's voice
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Old 2011.10.24, 05:43 PM   #28
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If it's like Blackout, then it is far from the second one.
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Old 2011.10.24, 05:51 PM   #29
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Sounan/Blackout/what else?
(Also, that in no way means it is bad.)
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Old 2011.10.24, 05:56 PM   #30
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There was the song she gave to Puffy that was also Blackout. Wasn't there another giveaway that was the same?

(and this in every way means it is bad.)
EDIT: Okay, not necessarily bad, but I get a kick of how many people here have to make double-dog clear that they are in no way being critical. Be critical! You don't have to like everything!
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