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Old 2014.11.18, 05:25 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
It's hard to explain it, and maybe a large part of it is just me reading too much into it, but I often read her English lyrics and can think of how (more) natural they would sound if they were translated literally to japanese. The only exception to this (off the top of my head) is Kaban no nakami -- that one sounds right at home in English.
Her doing that would completely ruin the rhythm and flow of the song. I think it was the song Doppelgänger, she did a live version where she had English lyrics instead, and I believe the lyrics are completely different than the original Japanese because she needed to come up with something in order to fit the same vocal melody and rhythm of the song.

So, if she were to translate any English lyrics she had to the literal Japanese, the song would be all wrong (and sound weird). She chose English for a reason, and vice versa for her Japanese songs.
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Old 2014.11.18, 05:30 PM   #52
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STEM's lyrics are pretty faithfully translated from Japanese (or the other way around?), yet I find them to be pretty different.
Same for Put Your Camera Down and Senkou Shoujo. They aren't as direct a translation, but the songs are about the same thing IMO. I prefer PYCD though.
Kaban no Nakami is something that I think was straight translated into English. For me, it really doesn't make sense? I the way the thoughts flow would make more sense in Japanese I think.

I think another thing we should realize: Shiina is an incredibly esoteric lyricist, nobody really knows what most of her songs are about,and they use complex vocabulary and kanji that not even more college students would use. You have no idea how many times I used words I learned from Ringo songs and my Japanese friends would be like "Why are you using that super-formal, incredibly outdated word?". Good example: karisome. (as in "Karisome Otome"). My friends in fact did not know what I meant, and after explaining they realized that the modern version is "kari". "Kagiri" is also not used very often. "Yokushitsu" you will NEVER hear. I think Ringo really likes older language. I'll have to delve into that more...
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Old 2014.11.18, 05:36 PM   #53
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Its not her translating the lyrics to English though is it?
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Old 2014.11.18, 05:46 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TurtleFu View Post
"Yokushitsu" you will NEVER hear. I think Ringo really likes older language. I'll have to delve into that more...
Same here, we don't use "latrine" any more.
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Old 2014.11.18, 06:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by FadedSun View Post
Her doing that would completely ruin the rhythm and flow of the song. I think it was the song Doppelgänger, she did a live version where she had English lyrics instead, and I believe the lyrics are completely different than the original Japanese because she needed to come up with something in order to fit the same vocal melody and rhythm of the song.

So, if she were to translate any English lyrics she had to the literal Japanese, the song would be all wrong (and sound weird). She chose English for a reason, and vice versa for her Japanese songs.
English version of Doppelganger? WHERE?!

And the point I was making wasn't about how her Japanese songs would sound better in English but how her English songs were OBVIOUSLY conceived in Japanese and then translated into English (hence, my claim that they would sound more natural in Japanese)
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Old 2014.11.18, 06:38 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
English version of Doppelganger? WHERE?!

And the point I was making wasn't about how her Japanese songs would sound better in English but how her English songs were OBVIOUSLY conceived in Japanese and then translated into English (hence, my claim that they would sound more natural in Japanese)
Except for Ima, but maybe that's cause we heard the English version first. Carnation in English sounds better too.
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Old 2014.11.18, 06:43 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
Except for Ima, but maybe that's cause we heard the English version first. Carnation in English sounds better too.
^ I agree, actually. Also, Atarashii bunmei kaika, and maybe Osorubeki otonatachi.

I know that sounds like quite a few songs, but in context: I hated English lyrics of Karisome otome, Yokushitsu, all of the English stuff on Re:Import, STEM (I wish it were always in Japanese). Would also love album version of Kodoku no akatsuki 50x more if she had kept the Japanese lyrics.
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Old 2014.11.18, 06:51 PM   #58
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I'm not one to really get too bothered by the weird English on anything tbh. Actually I find the weirdness kind of appealing. Then again, as I've tried to explain, the lyrics are all kinda secondary.

There are very few songs that I believe never had Japanese versions. Sigma for example. I also believe that the English on that was indeed penned by Ringo. APPLE on Towa Tei's Lucky is another example. They both seem more simple and use less 'big' words. Something doesn't float right with me when some of her English song use words that nobody speaks in English. But then again, like turtlefu was saying, she always had an appreciation for old style language, and maybe it's the same for English.

There's also a lot of wordplay in her English songs that no doubt she got help with. My favourite line in any of the English tracks "she's a landmine draped in Dior" no doubt was assisted.

But yeah, none of it is remotely (I'm talking interstellar distances here) as bad as hearing, say, Koda Kumi use English.
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Old 2014.11.18, 06:59 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
English version of Doppelganger? WHERE?!

And the point I was making wasn't about how her Japanese songs would sound better in English but how her English songs were OBVIOUSLY conceived in Japanese and then translated into English (hence, my claim that they would sound more natural in Japanese)
Hmm, so it's not called Doppelganger, but it's the same vocal melody. I first heard it on one of her live DVDs. I actually never even knew this video existed until I googled the lyrics, or that it was a recorded song. What album is this on?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1v...-de-bain_music
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Old 2014.11.18, 07:04 PM   #60
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That is la salle de bain, a different version of yokushitsu, not doppelganger
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