[SR] 2011.11.02 - Carnation (CD) [Single]

[deadgrandma]

.... Lol @ "check her Wikipedia page" ;-p

[orphic okapi]

Originally Posted by Inseu

Saying that her primary interests in music are classical and jazz is a gross understatement don't you think, not to mention some of her major influences are rock bands like Blankey Jet City and Number Girl.

Just check her wikipedia page and see how many rock bands are listed there, and those albums list (Albums For Discovery) and her playlists are musically all over the place. Surprisingly, they contain very little classical music.

Well you are right. I was being absurdly reductive. She's interested in just about every genre that's ever existed. I do think of jazz and classical as her primary influences because they are honestly what I hear coming through her music most frequently (in addition to being the genres that dominate KSK, her best work), and I think both are more pervasive in her work than rock, but that's kind of a hard thing to quantify.

I just get the sense that some people will be disappointed in everything she does until she releases an album of wall-to-wall guitar thrashing and starts flipping off the audience at concerts, and I feel like that's kinda missing the point of Shiina as an artist?

[Maou]

Originally Posted by orphic okapi

I just get the sense that some people will be disappointed in everything she does until she releases an album of wall-to-wall guitar thrashing and starts flipping off the audience at concerts, and I feel like that's kinda missing the point of Shiina as an artist?

Actually, I think that's kinda judging a book by its cover. It may seem like that, but it really isn't. The real problem a lot of people have here is that her music has become too... stripped down I want to say? Pre-Adult Shiina isn't simply seen as a rocker. She's a person who took many genres, mashed them together and made her own. Now, she's just seen as a musician who performs genre standards (regardless of quality) and it's less exciting. You may notice some aren't as impressed by her recent rock stuff anymore either.

She's a comfort artist for me now. She doesn't light the world on fire for me anymore, but I can always rely on her for at least 6.5/10 material.

[TurtleFu]

I still think she has the fire in her, but I think she lets it out less often and is going the easy route.

Dai-Hakken and Carnation had some exciting songs, as did Ichigo Ichie. I would say the best songs on those releases deserve to be on the same tier as her earlier work.

[orphic okapi]

Originally Posted by Maou

Actually, I think that's kinda judging a book by its cover. It may seem like that, but it really isn't. The real problem a lot of people have here is that her music has become too... stripped down I want to say? Pre-Adult Shiina isn't simply seen as a rocker. She's a person who took many genres, mashed them together and made her own. Now, she's just seen as a musician who performs genre standards (regardless of quality) and it's less exciting. You may notice some aren't as impressed by her recent rock stuff anymore either.

She's a comfort artist for me now. She doesn't light the world on fire for me anymore, but I can always rely on her for at least 6.5/10 material.

I shouldn't really accuse you of something I was guilty of like two posts ago, but I think you're oversimplifying. Shiina has always done plain old genre songs. What are Benkai Debussy, Identity, and Byoushou Public if not straight-up rock songs? She's also still doing a lot of songs that mix genres; one can easily detect at least three in Vogue, for example. But I don't think mashing together genres is really what made Shiina an interesting artist in the first place. She's good because she writes good pop songs and arranges them in interesting ways. If there's a reason her music isn't as great lately, it's because she fallen down on the "interesting arrangement" end.

[Scribble R]

I prefer Ultra C and Ringo Expo to GX and Zazen Ecstasy, and SG is adequately 'Ringo' for me, so I haven't had a *terrible* time as far as newer Ringo releases go.

Oh, Zettai Zetsumei, man.

[TurtleFu]

I think there is a big difference between Identity and Atarashii Bunmei-Kaika even though they are both good songs and also both "rock" songs.

Genre-bending is not all that Ringo is, and there is more diversity to music than just genre.

But guys, come on, this argument has been done to death on here. Can we please not do this? (or at least do it in PM)

[Maou]

Originally Posted by orphic okapi

I shouldn't really accuse you of something I was guilty of like two posts ago, but I think you're oversimplifying. Shiina has always done plain old genre songs.

Yes, it's true. It just feels more common now and isn't as well done because the band surrounding her (Phase 2/Saito) isn't as good as the other bands she's worked with.

What are Benkai Debussy, Identity, and Byoushou Public if not straight-up rock songs?

Crap, punk and grunge respectively.

She's good because she writes good pop songs and arranges them in interesting ways. If there's a reason her music isn't as great lately, it's because she fallen down on the "interesting arrangement" end.

Wouldn't you say the interesting arrangements are where most of her genre blending/breaking takes place?

Obviously there's more to Shiina than genre. She used to write sexy melodies with catchy choruses. She still shows glimpses and I guess that's what still keeps some of us around.

It really doesn't matter either way. Her showtunes all sound samey (you know what we mean TurtleFu!) and her straight jazz or rock sounds uninspired now. Shiina adapts and blends her own style with the styles of other people she works with more than any other artist I know. More than anything, she needs to break her comfort level by working with some new people.

[TurtleFu]

I agree 100% with that last part.

I want Yasutaka Nakata x Shiina Ringo so bad (Just kidding but not really)

[Scribble R]

I like how SR's arrangements sound as if they're trying to 'cram all the music in', as if the art's about to die off. (Regardless of whether she personally arranges each track or not, this is what I'd consider her style, and I hate how in a lot of Phase 2's stuff she plays the controlled diva.)

I maintain that a lot of SG, i.e. Tsugou ii Karada has a similar appeal to SS in how hyperactive and batshit it is (I have a strange obsession with this song. It sounds quite weak in many ways, but it's as if she drove the showtune thing to its limit. The song actually makes me laugh out loud at a certain point).

The songs on Carnation aren't bad at all, but as a release/project/entity thing, it cries 'creative rut' more than any other solo single she's put out. (I'm not saying that she's obligated to do something new every time, but...) I wouldn't turn Sanmon Gossip into a ghetto to dump all her future lazy Saito Neko releases into, because at least she took a few risks on that album.

Dai Hakken is the most forgettable release of hers, IMHO. That era, and the last year of releases just gives me a sort of bitter McRingo taste in my mouth.