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Old 2015.09.27, 08:44 PM   #1291
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I still dont agree you have to start phoning things in with age though. Or do embarrassing ass shit like the Coke song.

Note how all the worst stuff has happened since the merge to Universal. Makes me wonder if she really has as much freedom as she used to. Could be just me but she seems to be getting more and more tailored to the NHK stay home mum/family crowd and its pretty sad to witness.
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Old 2015.09.27, 09:38 PM   #1292
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Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
Note how all the worst stuff has happened since the merge to Universal. Makes me wonder if she really has as much freedom as she used to.
Seems like there's a strong case for Universal being quite the devil in Ringo's recent career. Exhibit A: The mastering. That interview was a cry for help...
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Old 2015.09.27, 10:46 PM   #1293
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This is how I'm starting to see things:

MM to Kyouiku: Shiina Ringo TM era- music for art and all that BS. For me, peaks with KZK.

Adult to Color Bars/Carnation Nu Ringo era- experimenting into jazz, fuddy duddy musak but with plenty of heart in it. Less songwriting happening, rehashing begins. For me, peaks with SG.

Jihen breakup material to present: Executive Ringo era- everything comes with a price or is a business decision. Time will tell what high point is.
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Old 2015.09.28, 01:19 AM   #1294
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Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
MM to Kyouiku: Shiina Ringo TM era- music for art and all that BS. For me, peaks with KZK.

Adult to Color Bars/Carnation Nu Ringo era- experimenting into jazz, fuddy duddy musak but with plenty of heart in it. Less songwriting happening, rehashing begins. For me, peaks with SG.
It's interesting because I recently listened to all her catalog in a chronological order and I did feel like immediately after Kyouiku, I went from "I love all of this!" to "most of this is boring". I used to divide it solo vs. band but now it's more - everything up to Adult, so I'm like you in that sense.
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Old 2015.09.28, 04:49 AM   #1295
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I dont mean to give the impression I dont like that middle phase (as I see it) at all- but there is definitely an audible- and expectable dip in quality after that peak that was KZK. Unfortunately, for me, she has slipped way below that bar and I dont believe Ringo- in her current mindset, even intends to reach anything higher. If you can find joy out of this commission work then all the more to you, for me it's like watching a pet slowly die.
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Old 2015.09.28, 09:30 AM   #1296
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I'm not sure I agree with this theory. SG, to me, really seems more directly a successor to KZK (via HF) than part of the general TJ era.

I basically see her career path as being split in two after the listening public slapped down KSK. TJ was the extension/continuation of the more popular, accessible Ringo we saw on MM and SS and that people had come to expect. Meanwhile, the more avant-garde Ringo disappeared for a while, but eventually re-emerged. Adult was maybe the first glimpse of this; it's the one album that doesn't quite fit this paradigm and I would call it a cross-over. But then with HF, then SG, and various singles and compositions for other artists, the split became better defined.

As for a dip in quality - yes, KSK was her peak, there's no denying it. But, IMO, SG is not merely the best of the era of second-bests, it's a great album in its own right - I'd rank it higher than MM and at least as high as SS. Had Sunny been produced as a cohesive album with 6 more *new* songs, it could've been a contender too.
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Old 2015.09.28, 09:41 AM   #1297
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Personally, I don't think KZK selling poorly (still 400k) affected her at all, she must have known it wouldn't sell well because those kind of albums never do. I still think she was most affected by the perverted nurse cosplay image that stuck to her that she hated, so she overcompensated by going for a glam jazz goddess in pastel, a sophisticated and 'clean' look and sound. She still breaks away from that and does some gritty stuff but overall that's her shtick now that she seems to like. I remember her bio stating she was always very conscious about how people view her.
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Old 2015.09.28, 09:54 AM   #1298
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I'll buy that she was haunted by the Honnou image; it's kind of sad, really, because it really seems like people interpreted that exactly opposite to the way it was intended. But it's always seemed to me that the real turning point in Ringo's career came much later, with Ringo no Uta and the removal of her mole.

400K in sales is nothing to sneeze at, but it did mark an abrupt turn in her popularity. I've also heard it said that a lot of those 400K records were bought sight-unseen by fans of the previous two albums, and that a lot of *those* people did not like it a bit. But even if she saw it coming, it's still gotta hurt.

ETA: My initial feeling on Kyouiku was, basically, that it was a step backward, not forward. Specifically, it was something along the lines of "what the hell happened after KSK?"
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Old 2015.09.28, 11:34 AM   #1299
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Originally Posted by zeroryouko View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this theory. SG, to me, really seems more directly a successor to KZK (via HF) than part of the general TJ era.

I basically see her career path as being split in two after the listening public slapped down KSK. TJ was the extension/continuation of the more popular, accessible Ringo we saw on MM and SS and that people had come to expect. Meanwhile, the more avant-garde Ringo disappeared for a while, but eventually re-emerged. Adult was maybe the first glimpse of this; it's the one album that doesn't quite fit this paradigm and I would call it a cross-over. But then with HF, then SG, and various singles and compositions for other artists, the split became better defined.

As for a dip in quality - yes, KSK was her peak, there's no denying it. But, IMO, SG is not merely the best of the era of second-bests, it's a great album in its own right - I'd rank it higher than MM and at least as high as SS. Had Sunny been produced as a cohesive album with 6 more *new* songs, it could've been a contender too.
Ditto.

I'm still expecting a new peak for this era, for some reason.
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Old 2015.09.28, 04:22 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by a_grumble_cake View Post
Personally, I don't think KZK selling poorly (still 400k) affected her at all, she must have known it wouldn't sell well because those kind of albums never do. I still think she was most affected by the perverted nurse cosplay image that stuck to her that she hated, so she overcompensated by going for a glam jazz goddess in pastel, a sophisticated and 'clean' look and sound. She still breaks away from that and does some gritty stuff but overall that's her shtick now that she seems to like. I remember her bio stating she was always very conscious about how people view her.
Embarrassed by Honnou nurse, completely fine with Nakata boobs out crimefighter...

At least the crimefighter is solid no gays I suppose
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