Is Ichijiku no Hana a rightful part of KSK?

[W3iHong]

Ichijuki is not in the kzk album.

/thread

[matan-san]

the problem with me is that I never really liked the KZK ver. of Souretsu (I love the Domestic Virgin version to death, though) so I wouldn't even mind if Ichijiku replaced it

[Maou]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

How on earth could anything be after "Souretsu"? (read as: should)
Ichijiku is in my top 3 Shiina songs ever, and no way do I feel it has a place on KZK. I think its not-even-a-single isolation makes it even more fun.

Ichijiku fits on KSK, but not as the ending. I find it works well on the album if you replace Odaijini with Ichijiku.

[Tokyo Jihad]

No wayyy, I love me some sacrilege, but I think putting those two tracks together dilutes the other and would cause to long of a dip in the album's flow.

Liking the Domestic ver of Souretsu and not liking Souretu is, I dunno, kinda missing the point.

[Scribble R]

Originally Posted by TurtleFu

Unlike HF, though, KZK is not designed to be like a movie. It's a soundscape, so having Souretsu last makes perfect sense. Souretsu says "THIS ALBUM IS OVER".
If you put Ichijuku after Souretsu, then Ichijuku basically says "NOW IS THE TIME TO THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST HEARD". It's a breather but not entirely necessary. I feel like it softens the blow of Souretsu, and if you need sometimes after Souretsu to soften the blow then you COMPLETELY missed the point of it.

This is true. Souretsu is a brutal, shocking termination of the exploration of emotions presented during KSK. It is BAD END, with no compromising equilibrium to follow it.

[matan-san]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Liking the Domestic ver of Souretsu and not liking Souretu is, I dunno, kinda missing the point.

I don't think so. my problem with KZK's Souretsu is it's "let's see how many unrelated sounds we can fit on a single song". the production tries to overwhelm the listener so much with it's sonic experimentations that the song itself is lost and Ringo's vocals are trapped in between and that's a pity because the songwriting itself is great. what I love about the Domestic blabla version is that it strips down all this sonic mess while keeping the structure of the song.
the Domestic version is probably much closer to how Souretsu sounded in it's raw form when Ringo wrote it on her guitar\piano\koto\tambourine and before Ringo & Uni turned themselves into the crazy scientists and decided to mess it up in the studio.

now you can all stone me if you want

[Tokyo Jihad]

But the song is about the production, much more than the songwriting. Its about the feeling and emotion and the unsettling atmosphere with the eastern instruments and electronics swirling around each other -- swirling around her voice. I think everything you said are reasons to love the track.

The live performance is great, but its great because of the translation. It might still be neat, but that admirable translation is a big reason why I personally am so keen on the performance. Taken by itself, I'm not so sure.

[TurtleFu]

EDIT:

This whole back and forth reminds me about the fight I had with Maou about the importance of an arrangement vs. the actual songwriting. In this case, I would say Souretsu's songwriting is nothing special but its KZK arrangement is.

For more on Souretsu:

You know, I think we discussed the meaning of Souretsu before. I think Frecklegirl says it is either about 1) an abortion or 2) the metaphorical death and rebirth of creativity
So, the KZK album version is obviously 2). And the live version is obviously 1). They are two interpretations of a song that are so different you can't even compare them.

That is why it is completely pointless to say that one is better than the other. I honestly believe that they are NOT even two version of the same song.

That being said, comparing the two songs is not relevant to this discussion.

[deadgrandma]

I just listened to KZK mora again. Still am wtf about Soutetsu wimp ver. Did they normalize it or something? Is it the same anticlimax on the cd versions?

[Tokyo Jihad]

I'm confused. How is it "obvious"? They aren't two different versions, so you can't compare? What?
You had me until the white text.