Audiology Thread

[TeslaGuy]

Compared nearfield monitors at B&H, and although the Neumanns were pretty good, these Genelec 8040As won the contest. More than I wanted to spend, but worth it.

genelec-8040a-218150_zpsf90f79cb.jpg

[Glathannus]

I don't trust personal observations in a retail environment so much, because it leads to commitment toward things which seem to work, or have pending consequences which aren't evident in the short-term.

I didn't have to try my Mackies or their competition before buying them, because all my research consistently indicated they were the best non-fatiguing monitors on the market at the time. The more expensive monitors (including the Genelecs) were all fatiguing, to where it became tempting for people to turn down the treble during extended listening.

That being said, I also have some idea of what I'm missing, as I'd be lying to myself if I chose to believe the Mackies were superior in every possible way. Sometimes I wish my mids were a little more textured instead of softer, and sometimes I wish my bass was snappier. I was already aware of these trade-offs before throwing the money down, but I couldn't justify spending 150%-250% as much on something fatiguing, if I wasn't even going to be doing actual production work with the equipment.

[TeslaGuy]

If I was comparing the $789 per speaker Genelec 8030As to the $699 Mackies, I would agree that it is merely a matter of which you personally prefer.

But the $1300 8040As are simply in another ballpark. No thread at the pro audio forums I researched at, such as Gearslutz, even mentioned Mackies in the 8040As vs. others threads.

Not to disparage your monitors. Mackie always delivers a tremendous bang for the buck, but I am willing to spend a lot more for something a little better.

I tend to budget my A/V purchases sanely, and then debate sensible frugality versus buying something I will really cherish for years, and then spend more that I should. I wanted some Grado headphones a couple of years ago, and thought the $295 325is were a good price/performance compromise. Ended up buying the $695 RS1is, their cheapest top tier offering. Worth it? Totally.

[Glathannus]

If you could afford more than 2 of those Genelecs, I'm sure they'd be awesome with DTS (even if it doesn't make much practical sense to rig together a home theater with near-fields). Unlike the lossy versions of Dolby, the lossy versions of DTS assume that most of your speakers are full-range, so DTS doesn't delegate as much of the bass to the .1 channel, and each of the full-range channels get more discrete bass information. I don't know if lossless Dolby and lossless DTS (found on Blu-Rays) are truly equivalent, as they too could have made different choices about where/how to allocate the bass.

I still need to get one or more subwoofers, and assemble them into a crossover configuration with my Mackies. Just because the Mackies can do bass below 80Hz, doesn't mean they should. But nobody seems to have any problems with the 8040A's performance below 80Hz.

By the way, are those 8040A's your only monitors?

[TurtleFu]

Is there a music player that supports an EQ on a song-to-song basis? I have a playlist that is mixed live and studio tracks, and the live tracks sound best with a certain EQ setting but this same EQ setting makes studio tracks sound awful. Is there a player that supports each individual song having an EQ setting (Maybe saved in the metadata?)

[Glathannus]

The only feature like it that I know of, is ReplayGain. It's a volume-level offset stored in the tags of the audio files themselves, and the player (usually foobar2000) applies that offset whenever playing those files. Each file can have a unique offset. The idea is that you get to hear a consistent volume level between all the files in your collection no matter what their original levels were, but without actually changing the audio data itself. So if you have lossless files, it's still possible to burn a perfect copy of the original CD.

Ideally a playlist specific to the player would store the EQ info, since there's no standardized scheme (that I know of) for how different players would save/load EQ settings. I hate when players (such as iTunes) generate lots of extra tags which are relevant only to that player.

[TurtleFu]

Yeah, I already have Replaygain enabled.
The problem I found with live tracks is that the mids need to be raised while the lows are lowered to sound good. An un-EQ live track has the bass overpower the vocals (and therefore the tracks doesn't seem as loud even if it technically the same dB as the studio tracks), whereas once I EQ it the vocals and everything else are crisper. This doesn't really work with studio tracks.

That's too bad. The only other solution I could try is maybe getting an audio-editing program to permanently remix the track, but that seems like way too much work.

[TurtleFu]

So my beloved PortaPros crapped out. The left headphone has no output, and I think it might be a cable connection problem. Unfortunately the cable is not user-replaceable, but luckily they have that excellent lifetime warranty so I mailed them in only had to pay cost of shipping, saved me about $25 if they send me new ones back (which they usually do).
Now I want to get a closed over-ear set before I leave, and I was thinking about sticking wtih Koss due to their warranty but their closed sets have some pretty mixed reviews. I saw the Audio Techinica MTH-50 paired with a FiioE6 amp bundled for $155 but don't know if that is a good deal. MTH-50 only have a 2-year warranty. Granted, the PortaPros lasted almost 2 years but I would hate to spend $150 on a set of headphones that won't last me more than 2 years. MTH-50 doesn't have a user-replacement cable unlike some other sets. My Sansa Clip Zip and Clip+ are still going strong, 3 years and 4 years respectively. For some reason every headphones I've owned has crapped out before 2 years.

Also my PortaPros must have awful impedence or they leak sound too much, because using crappy iPod earbuds I have to turn the music way down, they are much louder than the PortaPros (obviously aren't as comfortable or sound as good). PortaPros are good for exercising or times when it's unsafe to be completely isolated, but I want a closed set to use on the train (where screeching noises and the loud air conditioning make it almost impossible to listen to music with the PortaPros)

[Glathannus]

I don't have any experience with headphone amps yet, so I can't speak for the FiioE6. Also haven't owned and abused my ATH-M50 for anywhere near as many years as my similarly-built Sony MDR-7509 lasted.

It recently came to my attention that there's a new variant of the M50, specifically with a user-replaceable cable. It's called the M50X, and it's a little more expensive. Now that being said, it's not really the external cable that you should be worried about. On my MDR-7509, it was the internal cable between the two cups, which crapped out. There's nothing you can do to prevent that from happening in 7-10 years, and a user-replaceable cable on the outside doesn't make internal-cable failure any less likely.

I'm of the suspicion that there's more things which could go wrong with the M50X. Like, what if you lose the factory cable, and you want a replacement which actually has 1/4" in one end? It wouldn't be easy to find a decent one. Or what if the female jack on the headphone side starts to get loose or sensitive in the same way which can happen with the female jacks on laptops or portable players? I wouldn't get the M50X based on any theory of how much longer it would last - I'd choose it over a non-X variant just so I could alternate between different cord lengths and styles, because I don't always need a lengthy coiled cable.

It could also be argued that you don't really need an amp with an ATH-M50. So it would be wiser to try the headphone on its own, before deciding to spend extra money. Just don't forget about the burn-in period, and be aware that most/all of the negative reviews are from people who were still in the burn-in period and didn't know it.

[TurtleFu]

Thanks Glath. I'm going to head to my local Best Buy to test them out, but just hearing you say that your Sony MDR-7509 (another set I was looking out) lasted 7-10 years gives me confidence. If I get those and they crap out within 2 years, then chances are there is something wrong with ME!

(But still: Lifetime Warranty. It makes me feel better about dropping $80 on a Koss set if it means I just have to pay $15 if it ever breaks vs. spending $85 on MDR-7509 which will last a long time but I will eventually have to replace. Though if the MDR-7059 has superior comfort/sound maybe it is worth it.)

Also I looked up the impedance of the PortaPros
PortaPros: 60 ohms
MDR-7509: 63 ohms
MTH-50: 38 ohms
So yeah, probably don't need an amp for the Audio Technica but if I do get the Sony I might want to get one. I think my little Clip Zip clearly has problems powering my PortaPros AND that might explain why I was getting such terrible battery life out of my Clip Zip.

Thanks so much again Glath. Sometimes I feel bad about abusing your expertise but I always appreciate it.

EDIT: After doing more research I see that some people are suggesting 3rd party ear cushions for the Koss ProDj200 and the Sony MDR-7509. They recommend getting MTH-50 pads for them or Beyerdynamic EDT 250 earpads. That's another $20-25. Was wondering what your opinion was on the stock MDR-7509 earpads Glath. I tend to use my headphones for hours at a time so comfort is really important.