Ringo News 2015

[Entry№1]

Originally Posted by Osiris12345

Ringo is obviously really upping her performance game but is letting strong vocals and good songwriting take a backseat. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I commend the choreography and the work put into it and Ringo DOES show that she is a talented dancer. But saying Ringo's a talented dancer is probably the most backhanded compliment you can give her lately, isn't it? Nobody went to a Ringo show because they wanted to see Step Up live. We all know who Ringo was in her prime and this ain't it.

I'm really curious who here has asserted that she was at her prime? And how is her songwriting taking a "backseat", exactly? No one here but me ever attempts to discuss characteristics of SR's compositions, or the meaning of her lyrics (frecklegirl has practically left us, anyway). Because I pointed out the choreography and its relation to Japanese culture, people have a fit and think it's the same thing as saying Ringo might as well have Linda Perry or David Guetta write her next song. A similar thing happened when I posted a topic about Ringo's chord progressions years ago and someone told me I was making Ringo out to be some kind of "mad scientist" musically. I swear, it's like "fans" here don't want Ringo's work to be considered art, or treated as such.

Originally Posted by deadgrandma

If you can appreciate her for performance and visuals only, fair enough, hats off to you. But you can't HEAR them visuals when you are listening to her music. I remember when she had a brilliant balance of visual/performance AND music. Now its all visual. This doesn't really matter to me personally, I couldn't give a crap. If the music isn't there to hold it all together, then what's the point?

You know I respect the many things you've brought to this forum, DG, but this argument doesn't seem relevant to anyone in this discussion. Did anyone claim to like her visuals only? What if someone actually likes this song? Is it really that much worse than Cappuccino, Private, or any of the other pop songs she wrote from MM all the way up to Kyouiku (Kokoro, anyone?) and beyond? Not everyone is satisfied with a "BUT AUTOTUNE!!!!1" argument, sorry! If you want to discuss the actual composition of the song or the lyrics, that'd be completely different than most of the nonsense people get preoccupied with here. I'd be interested to entertain that.

Originally Posted by gekokujyo

I don't remember any of the Jihen work being as polarising as "coke song". At least nothing that made people go "I'm done" or actually call her work "shitty".

What about OSCA? Or BB QUEEN? Or really, the entirety of the HF/Variety era? You couldn't go a day without someone mocking Ukigumo's "guitar farts" or declaring their love of Shiina Ringo had died. There were a lot of pissy, melodramatic people on this forum ready to "breakup" with Ringo then (bye!), just as there is now.

Also, I'm tired of the same old "the old fans are drifting away" argument, which has already been played here, numerous times. I became a Ringo fan and started lurking here in late 2005, I'm shocked some times about how little the fans have really changed. I've had my periods of greater and lesser disillusionment with SR's career, too, but I'm a silver linings person. Even at her worst, she's still a brilliant songwriter. If you don't like her music, don't buy it.

[zeroryouko]

Originally Posted by Entry№1

I'm really curious who here has asserted that she was at her prime? And how is her songwriting taking a "backseat", exactly? No one here but me ever attempts to discuss characteristics of SR's compositions, or the meaning of her lyrics (frecklegirl has practically left us, anyway).

Why don't we discuss these things more? Even if some people's grasp of Japanese is a bit shaky (mine especially), many of the songs have been translated. Heck, some are even in English already. With that to aid in parsing the grammar, a lot can be learned just by looking up her vocabulary. And I've gone nuts trying to find a more technical description of the various vocal and musical techniques she uses.

Originally Posted by Entry№1

A similar thing happened when I posted a topic about Ringo's chord progressions years ago and someone told me I was making Ringo out to be some kind of "mad scientist" musically. I swear, it's like "fans" here don't want Ringo's work to be considered art, or treated as such.

Originally Posted by Entry№1

Not everyone is satisfied with a "BUT AUTOTUNE!!!!1" argument, sorry! If you want to discuss the actual composition of the song or the lyrics, that'd be completely different than most of the nonsense people get preoccupied with here. I'd be interested to entertain that.

I remember that thread. Not to single you out, but I really wish people would post more stuff like it.

From my perspective, the fact that Ringo's work should be considered art was cemented the day I heard KSK, and thought, my God, she wrote an opera. But somehow there is a basic assumption - and KSK is an excellent example of this - that in order to be art, the work must have a certain level of skill, personal authorship, authenticity, and ultimately, humanity. That's the essential problem I have with auto-tune/vocoder/lip-sync - it would seem to, at least in part, obviate the need for skill, blur the authorship, and draw into question the authenticity. Where does Ringo end, and the machine begin? Is she the master of the technology, or is it the master of her?

I was thus quite gratified to see your post regarding her dance moves at Kouhaku. Here, it seemed, was still the same talented Ringo I had known all along - she was simply hiding in a place I could not see.

Originally Posted by Entry№1

I've had my periods of greater and lesser disillusionment with SR's career, too, but I'm a silver linings person. Even at her worst, she's still a brilliant songwriter.

I like your philosophy. But ultimately one cannot take emotional reactions out of the equation. Perhaps Ringo's greatest skill is not singing or musical composition or dancing, but simply getting people to make an emotional investment.

[deadgrandma]

Totally going off on a tangent (and likely in the most inappropriate thread for it)

BUT...

WHY HAVE I NEVER SEEN THIS PERFORMANCE BEFORE????

SAPS w/ Ringo

Can someone please direct me in right way towards better quality version? And give some extra info. Clearly its a SAPS show where Ringo was a guest... and to me that is just freakin' cool to know there's recordings of.

[K__]

It's from SOCIETY OF THE CITIZENS vol 2, which was televised. No DVD so I dunno if there's a higher quality version floating around. It was a three-way headlined show between ZAZEN BOYS, SOIL&"PIMP"SESSIONS and Tokyo Jihen.

She also did duets with Mukai Shutoku (KIMOCHI) and Koyamashuu from SCOOBIE DO (a cover of Kanashiminohate by Elephant Kashimashi) that night.

[deadgrandma]

Ah so I have seen it but have lost all recollection of it.

[K__]

There's a better performance of Karisome Otome DEATH JAZZ floating around which I guess comes from another televised show. SAPS are exactly the same but Ringo seems more into it. It got taken off YouTube though and I'm not sure where it's from. I'll have a look for it later.

[chii]

Oh my god that 3 way show sounds face meltingly good. What a combo of amazing musicians!

I do remember the better version of that performance, it used to be on youtube, but it's gone now : (

[fernan1234]

Originally Posted by Entry№1

First of all,

No. I also don't think you know what that word means...

Have you heard of an album called "Shouso Strip" which has a song called "Identity" on it? It was written by a woman named Shiina Ringo and is about experiencing an existential crisis where she questions many things about her identity (hence the title). The music video features a famous Japanese woman dressing up in both traditional Western and Eastern garb, being dragged by horse.

Also, you are aware of the many feminist and queer activists in Japan, the many Japanese periodicals dedicated to gender issues, or the many Japanese universities that have gender and women studies programs, aren't you? In fact, in 1999, Ringo did a live tour of women's colleges exclusively. So yes, Ringo is aware of her gender and her national identity. If you think it too "Western" of her to be contemplating such matters, maybe you'd be content with Ringo not also making Western-style pop music and commit herself to the shamisen?


Keep in mind we're talking about a woman who managed to name-drop Montesquieu (of all people) in one of her most blatantly poppy songs, much less what she sings about at her most avant-garde. So no, Ringo is not averse to historical, philosophical, or high art references.

The mental up and downs about "identity" characteristic of adolescents/young adults is hardly the same type of political/national identity issues that you were trying to "see" (or "project" in a broader signification of the word) in the performance.

I'm not going to claim to have more knowledge than you about SR's private-life activities and decisions, or her sociological knowledge, but perhaps due to my own bias I prefer to not think that SR is a scholar. If a pop artist tries to mix up her artistic output with critical theory the result will be weak on both ends. I prefer to take things for what they are when it comes to my commercial entertainment.

[Ultra Blue]

Somehow i feel like these discussions are not for newbies but I'll chime in :/
I don't mind the lip-sync or the vocal effect at all but maybe that's because I'm a new Ringo fan so everything is still fresh to my ear. Sure, it took me awhile to actually like NMM or Kamisama but i had no expectation.

I found the single along with the rest of Tokyo Jihen discography at the same time and from those whole bunch of songs the only thing i can't get into is Discovery. I think some of guys disliked NMM or the whole new Ringo because you have a certain nostalgia-affected expectations for what you want to hear.

For me personally, the kouhaku performance itself is in no way bad but then again I've only seen a bunch of Ringo lives. Actually, I'd be very disappointed if i found Ringo still doing the same thing she did 10 years ago today. All of these constant changing in her career is what got me hooked at the first place but i get it, some old fans would see these new Ringo as a let down because their attachment with the 'old' Ringo.

[gekokujyo]

Originally Posted by K__

She also did duets with Mukai Shutoku (KIMOCHI) and Koyamashuu from SCOOBIE DO (a cover of Kanashiminohate by Elephant Kashimashi) that night.

I NEED that Elephant Kashimashi cover NOW!!! (didn't she perform it with Hirai Ken or something?)