Go Back   Electric Mole Forums > Shiina Ringo & Tokyo Jihen > Main Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Main Forum The place for general discussion. Old news and speculation, polls, trivia, memorabilia, favorite songs, and so on.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2007.08.23, 04:52 PM   #21
imkookoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 106
imkookoo is headed in the right direction
Default

Any whine about people being fake really takes me back to middle school when people are so strung up on that concept. Can you define being real? People have many different faucets of reality within themselves even. Personality and the self are both a very complex mesh that NOBODY else can define.

Take the Britney Spears example someone gave. She sung about true love and had a innocent image, but did a lot of things that were in fact "slutty". However, why can't people have both qualities? It's not unlikely that a person who sleeps around a lot can also yearn for "the one".

Personality is not concrete people. It changes with time, circumstance, environment, etc.

Shiina is not excluded. She became a mother, she grew older. She formed a band. She waited. Her personality at the time WAS about being different. And being bitchy, ecclectic, yadda yadda IS being different. I never thought that she was really the image she portrayed; I more thought she was pursuing her identity more as an art... it does not have to reveal oneself necessarily, but one's perception of other selves. Shiina was portraying what she thought of a bitchy, ecclectic person. That's a type of art.

People will always be cynical and thinkn it's only for the money or whatever. But even if we go with that thinking, what happens if it's both for the publicity, the mass appeal, the attention, AND to appeal to one's own sense of art? They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

This is the mature, 3-dimensional perspective. Don't be stuck with high school thinking. :\
imkookoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 04:59 PM   #22
Op2
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ghanada
Posts: 284
Op2 is headed in the right direction
Send a message via Yahoo to Op2
Default

Originally Posted by imkookoo View Post
Personality is not concrete people. It changes with time, circumstance, environment, etc.
Agreed 100%.
From the video below: People that think looks don't matter and personality is the "truth" need to rethink that. Personality is merely presentation. I can be sweet, I can be angry, I can pretend to like you, but secretly hate you. I can act like I care and make you believe it, but couldn't care less. You can judge my personality but you could be wrong. No one knows except me; Shiina is the same. Therefore, personality does not equal what is "real".

I advise everyone to watch all of this:
Fuck personality.
Op2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 05:11 PM   #23
Kasanagi
Senior Member
 
Kasanagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Yumiko's Kitchen
Posts: 630
Kasanagi has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Send a message via MSN to Kasanagi
Default

^ That someone uses the Britney Spears examples becauses the whole "innocent, im a virgin" thing was a carefully marketed image backed by mutli million dollar businesses, completely ruined by her not so careful private life...

I do agree with you on everything else though
__________________
Kasanagi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 05:53 PM   #24
midnightispure
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2
midnightispure pleased at least somebody
Default

For the love of god dude, I've been a lurker here for a long, long time, and now I'm like..actually posting because you make me climb the walls. Yes, no matter how hard it is for you to accept this, there are people that ENJOY what Yumiko is doing. I'm all for opinions, when you get down the real thing at hand, I could care less if you don't like her recent stuff. You just act like a little kid who thinks his opinion is the best and makes a thread to act all crazy about it. It's not your style, its not your taste, whatever. Move on, obviously you don't enjoy her/TJ's new stuff anymore. I like all of HF, yes, I love it all. I dance like a nerd to Papaya Mango [not really, but you get the point.] You strike me also as one of those holier than thou hardcore music people who is concerned with every little thing about a song, even to the point where you criticize Uki's guitar playing. I've never even touched a guitar in my life, and I don't know the first thing about playing a guitar, but I listen to what sounds good FOR ME. I think it sounds good, so I listen to it. Its his OWN way of interpreting an instrument that anyone can pick up and interpret THEIR OWN way. If everyone played the same every band would suck because everyone would be the same. I know you think he sucks, which gives you another reason to finally give up on them and stop complaining, enjoy the stuff you do and just leave the people who want to enjoy the music for what is is alone. Moving on..how you can honestly say you know that this 1998-2000 rock persona is the "true" her with a straight face is beyond me when in fact you've never even touched nor seen the woman in your life. Many people have said this before me, but I doubt you'll even pay attention - people change, for goodness sake. When people have babies popping out, obviously your mindset changes. When you take a break from your career and evaluate your life obviously there are parts of you that will change. Thats not to say you can't still have that previous personality that was changed. I, for example LOVED the Spice Girls when they were around. Does that mean I want to be a hardcore Spice Girls fan 7 years later? No, of course not, but I still enjoy their work. Basically, she's not creating your personal tastes. She's making the music for herself, not you, and you can't decide if she's faking herself or not because your opinion relies on blind faith which is just as bad as those fanatical religious maniacs.

I'm done.

Last edited by midnightispure : 2007.08.23 at 06:01 PM.
midnightispure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 06:24 PM   #25
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,993
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

Originally Posted by midnightispure
.how you can honestly say you know that this 1998-2000 rock persona is the "true" her with a straight face is beyond me
When in fact my main shake of faith is the thought that this "persona"wasn't true. Its like someone gives you medical advice, and you find out they weren't really a doctor at all. You'd be irate, no? If you found your doctor working at a shoe shop one day.

You know, I don't consider myself a particularly "tough" critic. I can watch a bad-mediocre movie and be largely positive about it (not always the case, but bare with.) Perhaps I'm a bit more scrupulous with music. It does take a bit much for me to really get behind a whole band. But my "requirements" aren't too tough: have good songs and don't be full of shit -- and the last one can be fenagelled a bit. Not every song on MM is "perfect" but the songs are still great.

Now to say that Uki's guitar is nit-picky is really reaching. If that's the case, the entire forum was nit-picky at a point =P

Has anyone watched School of Rock, with Jack Black? The way he talks about music and rock is pretty much exactly what I believe. The writer mighta called me up, asked me about music, then educed amnesia in me, because its the truth. His character is a loser, no one takes him seriously, he's not a guy that people take very seriously. But what happens in the end? He doesn't win, but he makes somethin' happen. And that's what it's all about. (Its a good movie too, and don't even argue that. =P)
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 06:49 PM   #26
HEDOfloe
Senior Member
 
HEDOfloe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,716
HEDOfloe puts considerable thought into their posts
Default

Originally Posted by golem09 View Post
No, I can't. Seriously, I can't imagine that anybody would like Metal or songs by Uki. I just can't. But there are people, and they like it. So either way I am right, and anybody who listens to Metal and Ukisongs is stupid, or I can't tell what's a good song without liking it.
I mean that you can tell if something is well composed or if someone actually took time to make something new instead of just producing some crap to sell to the dumb masses. I don't understand how people like metal either, but I don't think its hard to see how people like uki.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
I'm believing in '99 she said "this is me, this is who i am" and it wasn't. It was an act. Or if not, that was truly her and now, that she's trying to bury that past, is the act (or they're both acts, who cares.) Either way, that's no kind of person I keep in good graces.
It's like NIHM said, that is who she was THEN. People don't stay the same forever.
HEDOfloe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 07:00 PM   #27
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,993
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

People mature, people break habits (or try to), however you guys make it seem going from Charlie Manson to Mother Teresa is in the realm of possibility. People may even radically change a kind of temperament given a huge life changing experience, but they don't become different people. They don't change their insides unless they weren't projecting their guts to begin with.

If birthing a child a life changing experience? Yes. Going from MM to EM/DO Shiina, certainly. However, such a...delayed change? Writing off the very stuff that got her the ability to make a song like Kono yo ni and not have it laughed out of the exec office? If that Shiina what made MM was in fact "real," she would not have disowned her other works, pretend it wasn't really her that made it. She seemed to have some conviction.

EDIT: Just to see if I can draw him to the thread, Maou's take on the single was the funniest "review" I've heard yet, but I won't steal his thunder
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena

Last edited by Tokyo Jihad : 2007.08.23 at 07:10 PM.
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 07:25 PM   #28
fluffiethesock
Senior Member
 
fluffiethesock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,897
fluffiethesock puts considerable thought into their posts
Send a message via AIM to fluffiethesock
Default

1998 SR = 20 years old.
2007 SR = 29 years old.

That's a big difference. I know dudes who used to go to parties, get wasted, sleep around, take them drugs. Now they say that it was all really stupid and they won't be a part of it (you can agree or disagree with that; it's not the point I'm trying to get across). Their personalities haven't changed, but they're not crazy, angry kids anymore. A couple of them have families, and their outlook on life isn't all about pleasing themselves anymore. They've matured. I'm not claiming that this is the case for Ringo, because I really don't know, but this kind of thing is verrrry natural. Paul McCartney has changed. Now he sings about old guy stuff. Billy Corgan changed when he went to Zwan. Actually, that's a really good example. You know exactly what I'm talking about Jihad, so I won't elaborate.
fluffiethesock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 07:39 PM   #29
Kasanagi
Senior Member
 
Kasanagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Yumiko's Kitchen
Posts: 630
Kasanagi has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Send a message via MSN to Kasanagi
Default

Lol mods, changed this thread's name to "Jihad vs the world".
__________________
Kasanagi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007.08.23, 07:46 PM   #30
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,993
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

I seem to be losing you guys. What I'm talking about is philosophical differences, like her self. I understand thats still vague, but i'm not meaning "growing up and not wanting to do keggers anymore.

As for Zwan, Billy didn't really change with Zwan. He was still the same Billy that was fagging around in a dress with the pumpkins. He was just writing different kind of songs (which I thought were fantastic, but whatever.) He didn't say "Oh, The pumpkins were stupid and I was just doing it to do this" He didn't cast Siamese Dream into a flame, he wasn't "someone else" he was still Billy Corgan (for better or worse.) There was no Old Billy v. Nu Billy. Nor even a Young Paul v. New Paul (really).

Originally Posted by Kasanagi View Post
Lol mods, changed this thread's name to "Jihad vs the world".
That could be the case for every Shiina related thread I post in. (Which is why I generally stay out now, but this got inadvertently dragged out.)
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:57 PM.