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Old 2011.01.13, 08:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Yahiko View Post
although these were fake cms

Glico was her CM debut, I guess
Suntory ones were real I believe, but the other 3 were fake. Plus, her music has also been used for tv shows.
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Old 2011.01.13, 09:53 PM   #32
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it was not, the product exists, the cm doesn't
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Old 2011.01.14, 06:57 PM   #33
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"If Michael Jackson wants to work for Pepsi, why doesn't he just get himself a suit and an office in their headquarters and be done with it?"
-Tom Waits

I am not going to condemn an artist based on a single advertisement, although it is certainly displeasing to me. I understand there are politics involved when your on a record label. But being the poster girl for a brand is a different story. Doing multiple advertisements in a year is a different story. Especially once you've established a strong enough status to start doing things your way. Going as far as naming the song to fit the product...I can't support that.

That combined with comparatively mediocre music that doesn't even stand out as one of my favorite albums of the year and this turn towards writing crappy songs for crappier acts and bad TV shows...

They have every right to do this, no doubt. But I reserve every right to condemn it as shallow and contradictory to labeling them as artists. I don't think it's unfair of me to take back good things that I've said about them.

The only reason I am angry is that I'm embarrassed about using her as a representation of what I love about music with anyone I had conversations with about music for 3 or 4 years. My mistake, not hers.

I did buy the albums before but what do I need to now? They work for Shiseido, not me.
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Old 2011.01.14, 08:36 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by lazer85 View Post
crappier acts and bad TV shows...
Nope. Atami no Sousakan was actually a very good show!

Edit: and the music fitted pretty well, altogether with Eric Satie tunes.
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Old 2011.01.15, 12:36 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by lazer85 View Post
"If Michael Jackson wants to work for Pepsi, why doesn't he just get himself a suit and an office in their headquarters and be done with it?"
-Tom Waits

I am not going to condemn an artist based on a single advertisement, although it is certainly displeasing to me. I understand there are politics involved when your on a record label. But being the poster girl for a brand is a different story. Doing multiple advertisements in a year is a different story. Especially once you've established a strong enough status to start doing things your way. Going as far as naming the song to fit the product...I can't support that.

That combined with comparatively mediocre music that doesn't even stand out as one of my favorite albums of the year and this turn towards writing crappy songs for crappier acts and bad TV shows...

They have every right to do this, no doubt. But I reserve every right to condemn it as shallow and contradictory to labeling them as artists. I don't think it's unfair of me to take back good things that I've said about them.

The only reason I am angry is that I'm embarrassed about using her as a representation of what I love about music with anyone I had conversations with about music for 3 or 4 years. My mistake, not hers.

I did buy the albums before but what do I need to now? They work for Shiseido, not me.
I don't understand why anybody needs to be 'embarrassed' about anything. Of course it is your prerogative to feel that way but to me it seems illogical. It's almost as if you are suggesting (and you may correct me if I am mistaken) that product endorsement INVARIABLY undermines the quality of the music; I fail to see that correlation. I also don't see anything inherently wrong with creating music for a specific commercial purpose; it's not as if there is NO artistry involved, and if anything, I think it keeps things interesting. She can go and do all her "own" music and stuff, but it's also kinda cool that she can bust out something quirky for a product when she has to. It's just variety, and as long as it isn't bad music, I see no reason to condemn it/her.

Yes, she is no longer 'alternative' or 'quirky' or 'esoteric', she is very much a household name now etc etc. Whatever. SPORTS was still a pretty freaking awesome album, and I am excited about whatever new material she is going to put out.
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Old 2011.01.15, 03:25 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
Whatever. SPORTS was still a pretty freaking awesome album, and I am excited about whatever new material she is going to put out.
thats what i'm going for, too
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Old 2011.01.15, 05:29 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
It's almost as if you are suggesting (and you may correct me if I am mistaken) that product endorsement INVARIABLY undermines the quality of the music; I fail to see that correlation.
If a song is a commercial, it doesn't necessarily mean its bad -- but that's not a good start. When an ad exec makes a commercial, he wants that ad to be able to play to ANYONE at any time. If he can get away with showing the ad during CSI AND Dora the Explorer, all the better. (I realize these aren't japanese shows.) So if he's gonna pay an artist for a new song to put in it, that song better not rock the boat too much. Now that song doesn't have to "appeal" to all those differing demographics, but it does have to allow those demographics to watch the commercial. Meaning "it better not be too loud," "it better not be too subtle either!" The feel of the song has to conform (not necessarily appeal) to all these people, so the feel of the song is bound to be homogenized and "safe." This doesn't mean it's destined to be a bad song, "safe" and "nonthreatening" might be adjectives that describe your taste...I guess. But for an artist, these normally aren't foundations for success. I'm talking about creative success though.

Originally Posted by gekokujyo View Post
I also don't see anything inherently wrong with creating music for a specific commercial purpose.
You don't agree that approaching songwriting with the goal of "I want to write a song I can pitch to execs, score a tie-in deal, and rake in the Benjamins" sort of undermines the creative process? It's like charging money for sex. It takes the romance out of the equation and/or it turns something super fun into a boring job. There's only one reason to do it at that point. $. (And you don't have to mention that way long ago she sang a song like "Kabuki-cho no Jou")

In America, sometimes you'll discover a song/band through a commercial. Usually it's a small, independent band who made a good song who caught the right person's ear. Last month they played a Hyundai commercial where this hipster band (Pomplamoose) sang Christmas songs. Had they not run this ad into the FUCKING GROUND, and even still, I bet quite a few people were turned on to this band that most people knew nothing about before. Sometimes we'll hear a band we recognize in a commercial, but often its a song we also recognize. It would be UNHEARD of to hear a brand new U2 song in a commercial, but I doubt anyone would bat an eyelash if thy heard "Mysterious Ways" behind a sneaker commercial. The important difference is that these were songs first. They existed a while and we were familiar with the song (or in the case of a small independent band, we trust/assume this.) For a song to debut in an ad, or be included very close to it's release raises all sorts of red flags (mentioned above.) Lets say U2 put a brand new song in a Pepsi ad. Everyone's first reaction would be "Doesn't Bono have enough money??" At this point, the song doesn't even matter. It's "that U2 Pepsi song."

Now you can say what you want about different cultures, but it doesn't change anyone's opinion on the matter. Shiina Ringo is Bono at this point. She's not clawing her way into view, "she's a household name." It's troubling that the same artist that mocked such actions now has made it a routine indulgence. When "Shuraba" was used, I don't think too many here raised an eyebrow at it. "Senkou Shoujo, Ariamaru Tomi".....okay I guess. But this Dopamint crap is the line. It's clear at that point you are Bono making a Pepsi ad. But whatever, money isn't ungrateful I guess.
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Old 2011.01.15, 02:44 PM   #38
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While I agree with most of what you say, Jihad, if "not too loud but not too subtle" and "non-threatening" were the prime characteristics for a good CM song, "Dopamint!" failed miserably. I mean, it's kinda off-putting, and definitely "out-there".

Originally Posted by Yahiko View Post
it was not, the product exists, the cm doesn't
Just because the CM wasn't aired on TV doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Even if Ringo chose to advertise the products herself doesn't mean they're not advertisement.

Let's not forget Ringo also covered this before she even debuted:
Kono Ki nan no Ki

What does that say about her being a sell-out?
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Old 2011.01.16, 04:38 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
It's like charging money for sex. It takes the romance out of the equation and/or it turns something super fun into a boring job..
I like this point. Sure romance could bud out of a money-for-sex situation...it's about as likely as me being seriously moved by the Don Quixote theme song. Don Don Don Donkey! Donkey Ho TAY!



When products are made with sincerity, I have no problem with music thrown into the mix, in fact, I feel exactly the same way as you, gekokujyo. My problem is that I don't trust most large corporations, and with good reason. Sure I might be wrong about some of them but the vast majority of them are about profit-over-quality and not profit-with-quality. I have friends who make music exclusively for commercials and I respect their job...but on the same token, while I may be impressed with some of their songs, I'm not likely to get very emotional listening to anything they write and I'm not going to pay money to listen to it.

My opinion about all this just goes with me being a very anti-corporate. I suppose I'd be more forgiving of these things if I didn't see the companies involved as giant blobs that try to swallow everything they can. But that is how I see them.


And also, for the record, the crappy tv show I was referring to was SMILE, not the other one which seemed kind of OK.
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Old 2011.01.16, 10:37 AM   #40
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^ Great sex is great sex, romance or not. In fact I have had to end many nice, sensible romances because the sex was just a snoozefest.

But I digress. I liked Dopamint, and didn't think it was a snoozefest. I treat it like the occasional romp in a public restroom. I wouldn't do it all the time, but it's fairly fun and thrilling every so often.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then!
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