Ringo-written Chiaki Kuriyama single "Tsukiyo no Shouzou" 11/23

[frecklegirl]

Originally Posted by TurtleFu

she still dressed like a prostitute in at least 2 music videos (Tsumiki Asobi and Stem). It's not really critical, in fact it's something I like about Ringo.

Something about this was bothering me, so I looked it up.

Tying obi in the front is not by definition something only prostitutes do.

wiki (which in turn quotes a kimono book):
Originally all obis were tied in the front. Later on fashion began to affect the position of the knot and obis could be tied to the side or to the back. As obis grew wider the knots grew bigger, and it was becoming cumbersome to tie the obi in the front. In the end of the 17th century obis were mostly tied in the back. However, the custom did not become established before the beginning of the 20th century.[3]

Also here:
•Obi - Geisha and Maiko never ever, wear their obi's tied at the front! The mental vision I am getting right now, trying to imagine a Maiko obi tied at the front, or even the taiko obi is quite amusing! There are two stories as to how it originated that Oiran and Tayuu wear their obi tied at the front. The first being that traditionally, married women tied their obi at the front - and as a masquerade that they were "married" to their clients for the night, they mimicked the front tying. The second story is that having the obi tied at the front obviously makes it much easier and faster to undress and get dressed. Both plausible, and both ring true. Needless to say though, it is quite a striking sight to behold!

To me it makes more sense that she was just tying her obi in an old-fashioned way, a way that pays homage to the past and Japanese history, rather than deliberately attempting to look like a prostitute. If she was trying to play a character, it seems to me that it was a regular woman from a bygone era. You can't just think "tied in the front = prostitute!!!!!" -- it's much more nuanced.

[kuro_neko]

yeah except the commonly accepted connotation is that tied at the front equals prostitutes. several people I've asked have taken that to be the connotation, and with ringo's lyrics and image during her debut and second album, how can you even argue otherwise? it is part of the appeal. shooting her video in kabukicho to match the theme, double entendre lyrics in honnou, her character in her KZK era movie...

the real question I have is...why is this insulting? why is this a bad thing? No one is objectifying Ringo or forcing her to play this part, she is doing so from a place of independence and power and to tie in to her constant social commentary on gender/class roles in Japan.

I appreciate your insistence on examining the intricacies of such matters, but generally speaking the common consensus points the other way, which is usually what matters as it lasts the test of time.

[deadgrandma]

I just think it looks cool

Probably what she was thinking too.

[TurtleFu]

So that brings Tsumiki Asobi into question, but I'm almost certain that she was supposed to be a kind of prostitute in the Kuki short film, which the PV is based off of.

[s3r3nity]

I feel like Ringo is reliving her youth through Chiaki, and I'm okay with this.

[destrega]

But Chiaki is 27...

[Maou]

Originally Posted by destrega

But Chiaki is 27...

I'm 27. What are you trying to say?

[TurtleFu]

You are actually younger than I thought you were?

But considering Creamy Season sounded like it was straight out of Muzai Moratorium, I have to agree. Ringo knows that there are some songs that she can't perform, but she still has written.

Ringo is becoming Yuming.

[Tokyo Jihad]

If she's singing Idol stuff like Bunmei-kaika, then there's no excuse for her to not play more MM-esque stuff (and I don't mean Marunoichi re-heated for the millionth time.) Besides, even at 27 Shiina was starting to act "over the hill."

That said, I haven't listened to this song and just want to hear more stuff I like.

RETRO EDIT: Cuz i'm tired of being the recent post:

Originally Posted by so_cold

Also few people born in 1978 decided when they turned 30 or even earlier that they were too old for the kinds of music the rest of their generation listen to and start making showtunes that hark back to 50 years prior. In Japan or anywhere else. That's just Shiina Ringo and she's special...

This is the baffling truth. I've finally pinpointed the word for it. The word is "regressive." She has had regressive behavior since the original Jihen disbanded.

[so_cold]

Apart from the bridge (which is important to the SR sound I grant you), Creamy Season wouldn't fit in on MM. Where did that idea come from? Compare with Cappuccino or Private in particular which sounds "closest" to Creamy Season. Surely you can recognise a lot more of SR's old style in those than the newer song?

Also few people born in 1978 decided when they turned 30 or even earlier that they were too old for the kinds of music the rest of their generation listen to and start making showtunes that hark back to 50 years prior. In Japan or anywhere else. That's just Shiina Ringo and she's special...

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad;

This is the baffling truth. I've finally pinpointed the word for it. The word is "regressive." She has had regressive behavior since the original Jihen disbanded.

Quoting deliberately to make the flow of posts on this thread look confusing and that amuses me. =)

I think the film Being John Malkovich actually happened but with SR. The polite old lady everyone talks about actually exists, she crawled through a magic tunnel into Ringo's mind and took her on a whole new career, just like John Cusack in that film. It's the single most rational explanation for what happened.