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Old 2009.04.13, 03:18 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by ChickShhh View Post
You are welcome.
Could you hear the lyrics of the reversed version?
somehow it does make sense...
'誰か死ぬ'... = 'Dare ka shinu'...
'Dare ka shinu' = 'Someone will die' (...?) She deliberately wrote lyrics so that they could be heard in reverse...?

EDIT: Heard it! It's at 0:35-0:36 of the reversed version.

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Old 2009.05.10, 08:52 PM   #182
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so I have first pressing for this album, which was CCCD, copy-controlled CD. but I remember when I opened it and played it I was surprised because I had no problems using it with iTunes and ripping it to my library. I've never noticed anything wrong with the files.

does anyone really know what the whole CCCD issues are anyways? I read that the protection varies from hidden folders (so you can't find the files) to error control codes being left off (meaning if you try ripping the disc you get audible errors), to DRM-encoding. I've never noticed an issue with my KSK but the whole issue makes me pissed and I don't feel like paying to buy the reissue which is a standard CD again.

I've never noticed any problems ripping my KZK and I've done it a few times. Maybe since I'm on a Mac it went over easy (at the time most software was focuse on music sharing on PCs)
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Old 2009.05.10, 09:00 PM   #183
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I know that I couldn't secure rip KZK or Ringo no Uta on my Plextor drive because of the CCCD, but was able to rip it unsecured on a normal cheap Samsung drive. It's such an annoyance.
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Old 2009.05.11, 12:38 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by kuro_neko View Post
so I have first pressing for this album, which was CCCD, copy-controlled CD. but I remember when I opened it and played it I was surprised because I had no problems using it with iTunes and ripping it to my library. I've never noticed anything wrong with the files.

does anyone really know what the whole CCCD issues are anyways? I read that the protection varies from hidden folders (so you can't find the files) to error control codes being left off (meaning if you try ripping the disc you get audible errors), to DRM-encoding. I've never noticed an issue with my KSK but the whole issue makes me pissed and I don't feel like paying to buy the reissue which is a standard CD again.

I've never noticed any problems ripping my KZK and I've done it a few times. Maybe since I'm on a Mac it went over easy (at the time most software was focuse on music sharing on PCs)
CCCDs have the same raw audio as normal CDs, but the layout is designed to throw off CD-ROM drives more than anything else, especially when the drive operates in high speed (basically anything beyond 4x).

What I've noticed is that KZK comes with low-bitrate MP3s of the album in a CD-Extra folder somewhere, and you're not supposed to have these MP3s unless a bundled software application concludes that you're in Japan. This is a much more ridiculous setup than most of the CCCDs I have ever popped into a computer. You have to understand that KZK is 44:44, which means there is plenty of storage capacity on the disc that isn't being utilized by the standard audio (if the maximum is 80 minutes). This makes it all-the-more ridiculous that they wanted to give us 128kbps MP3s, when you consider that they had almost enough room for lossless, and more than enough room for 320kbps. It should also be noted that plenty of CCCDs have no CD-Extra content at all, despite some people developing a belief that CD-Extra is central to any possible copy protection on audio CDs.

iTunes comes to its conclusions about an audio CD, without having any idea about how screwed up that CD is. It can get the correct (or near-correct) results without noticing any of the pitfalls that any ripping process should avoid. The more that a ripping process tries to be smarter than a CD player, the more confused they will get by the deliberate quirkiness that has been planted all over the flow of a CCCD. It's like having a map to a Starbucks in Seattle you've never been to before, and the street names are all wrong. iTunes ignores the street names, and just keeps track of exactly how far they've traveled in each direction before making another turn. Depending upon how curvy some of the streets get, and how many extra/alternate/possible side-streets you could turn into, you could still end up at the wrong destination independently of whether the street names were ever correct or incorrect, but that wrong destination could be another Starbucks nearby and you conclude it's the one you've been looking for.

Originally Posted by Ringo~Bingo View Post
I know that I couldn't secure rip KZK or Ringo no Uta on my Plextor drive because of the CCCD, but was able to rip it unsecured on a normal cheap Samsung drive. It's such an annoyance.
If the Samsung model you're talking about was a DVD drive, then I'm not surprised. It should also be pointed out that there's been Cease & Desist notices against the developer of EAC, and gradually the newer versions of it have been able to overcome less of the copy-protection schemes than before. With a CD drive and an old version of EAC, I've been able to Securely rip plenty of CCCDs just fine, though I haven't tried it specifically with KZK yet.
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Old 2009.05.11, 03:59 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Glathannus View Post
It should also be noted that plenty of CCCDs have no CD-Extra content at all, despite some people developing a belief that CD-Extra is central to any possible copy protection on audio CDs.
Like Sony CDs! Those are the bane of my existence, basically. I couldn't actually listen to them except on my CD player for years until I got an updated computer that was actually able to read them.
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Old 2009.05.11, 08:22 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Glathannus View Post
What I've noticed is that KZK comes with low-bitrate MP3s of the album in a CD-Extra folder somewhere, and you're not supposed to have these MP3s unless a bundled software application concludes that you're in Japan.
Haha, I don't think I've actually ever noticed! Or maybe I just forgot about it, but I popped my KSK into the PC (it's the second-press of the original 2003 issue) and indeed there's an audio player utility which plays back mp3s - however these are not even 128 kbps, they are 48 kbps.
The romanization of these mp3s is a bit funny at places too
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Old 2009.05.11, 11:54 AM   #187
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huh... I forgot I had a first-press KSK but I do have the sticker that came with it, so I guess I do. I've never noticed any copy-protection problems.
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Old 2009.05.11, 01:05 PM   #188
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yeah, well I had no problem ripping it using iTunes back in the day, and my files were originally lossless and now are 320, but if I remember the ripping process was quite slow, if anything.

glanth, are you implying that iTunes could a) take an entirely different route to end up with the same result or b) ultimately end up locating the mp3s and ripping those instead

all the track names and everything came through mine pretty easy in Japanese characters, and the music has always been higher quality, so I'm just going to assume mine are okay.
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Old 2009.05.11, 01:15 PM   #189
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Any DVD drive is going to overcome CCCD protection much more easily than a CD drive, no matter which ripping software you use. Even with a DVD drive, there are still other problems that are inherent to ripping the general audio CD format no matter what kind of drive you use, and you pretty much need a Secure ripper like XLD or EAC to overcome those normal (or not specific-to-CCCD) problems.

There's no chance that iTunes is grabbing the premade MP3s while believing it's ripping the main audio. I might think iTunes is stupid, but I don't think any ripping program is that stupid. Ripping programs know the difference between the main content and CD-Extra, even when they can't read the main content very well.
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Old 2009.05.11, 01:23 PM   #190
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well if having a dvd-drive makes a difference that could be it as well, as I had a read/write super dvd drive. interesting though.
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