SR a vocal perfectionist?

[digdad]

I was listening to Kaban no Nakami the other day and I was noticing how deliberate yet natural SR's vocals sounded. It seemed as if every note had the perfect stress, affectation, and amount of power to it. I was thinking that it's unlikely this could come entirely natural to anyone really and was wondering if this was a case where it was take after take of the vocal track until the right one was hit upon. I know she can be controlling with regards to her music arrangements, but I've never really read anything about her recording techniques especially concerning her vocals (there's only so much I can read with my Kanji barely beyond a first grade level). Is she known to be a perfectionist with her vocals to the point where she scraps takes that to others would seem perfectly acceptable?

[Canto]

Ringo's concentration on vocal details has always been one of her most appriciable virtue for me. In her live performances, where she pulls her emotion out of the frame of recording sessions, her concern on each and every note stands out even more. Finding out how she treat every line of the lyrics is such a fun.

As for arrangements, one of the fansites (I think it's the ether-net one) provides rather detailed staff list, despite some minor errors. Her arrangement has usually been collaborations with others - like Shishou, whereas her recording engineer has always been Inoue Uni - her long term partner.

[HEDOfloe]

Originally Posted by Canto

As for arrangements, one of the fansites (I think it's the ether-net one) provides rather detailed staff list, despite some minor errors. Her arrangement has usually been collaborations with others - like Shishou, whereas her recording engineer has always been Inoue Uni - her long term partner.

Wait, so you're saying that once she composes a song, she usually works with someone else for the final arrangement? Or just the vocal arrangement?

[Glathannus]

I suspect they do many takes, but rather than using the best overall take, they create a patchwork recording of best emphasis for each segment of a song. It's not like sound is coming out of Shiina Ringo throughout every split second of an entire song, and those brief moments where she has to inhale and start the next measure, make for easy splice points.

Sometimes I suspect certain other vocalists, like Maynard from Tool and A Perfect Circle, of the same thing. I recently attended a Tool concert, and Maynard wasn't quite the god I thought he'd be from all the times I listened to his CDs, though he was still pretty damn good.

And that brings up a side-topic I've been wanting to get into.

When Maynard performs on stage, there's never a light shown on him, not even when he's doing keyboard. And he's not in the front or the center either, but rather, he's in a back corner, adjacent to the drummer.

There's been no official statement about this, but everyone's best guess is that he doesn't want the attention, or want to be perceived as a central or more important force of Tool.

So that brings me to a rather critical question:
Why doesn't Shiina Ringo do anything like that?

No matter who does the compositions, she still maintains this idol-like demeanor. I was under the impression that starting up Tokyo Jihen was partially so it wouldn't be all about her, or so she said, way back when.

Like does anybody even know who the band members of No Doubt were/are? I dunno either. All I know is Gwen Stefani this, Gwen Stefani that. She's like a Marilyn Monroe Jr., and milked as such, to the degree where most people don't really know or care who composes what she sings.

I see Shiina Ringo going down the Gwen Stefani path, and it kind of bothers me. This isn't just about stage direction, but also the sheer magnitude of photoshoots she's done without the rest of the band. I'm not saying the rest of the band ought to be in more photoshoots with her (most of them aren't very photogenic anyway), but I guess what I'm saying is she draws too much attention to herself.

Anyway, I apologize for hijacking your thread here.
Carry on.

[cjhobbies00]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

I suspect they do many takes, but rather than using the best overall take, they create a patchwork recording of best emphasis for each segment of a song. It's not like sound is coming out of Shiina Ringo throughout every split second of an entire song, and those brief moments where she has to inhale and start the next measure, make for easy splice points.

Sometimes I suspect certain other vocalists, like Maynard from Tool and A Perfect Circle, of the same thing. I recently attended a Tool concert, and Maynard wasn't quite the god I thought he'd be from all the times I listened to his CDs, though he was still pretty damn good.

And that brings up a side-topic I've been wanting to get into.

When Maynard performs on stage, there's never a light shown on him, not even when he's doing keyboard. And he's not in the front or the center either, but rather, he's in a back corner, adjacent to the drummer.

There's been no official statement about this, but everyone's best guess is that he doesn't want the attention, or want to be perceived as a central or more important force of Tool.

So that brings me to a rather critical question:
Why doesn't Shiina Ringo do anything like that?

No matter who does the compositions, she still maintains this idol-like demeanor. I was under the impression that starting up Tokyo Jihen was partially so it wouldn't be all about her, or so she said, way back when.

Like does anybody even know who the band members of No Doubt were/are? I dunno either. All I know is Gwen Stefani this, Gwen Stefani that. She's like a Marilyn Monroe Jr., and milked as such, to the degree where most people don't really know or care who composes what she sings.

I see Shiina Ringo going down the Gwen Stefani path, and it kind of bothers me. This isn't just about stage direction, but also the sheer magnitude of photoshoots she's done without the rest of the band. I'm not saying the rest of the band ought to be in more photoshoots with her (most of them aren't very photogenic anyway), but I guess what I'm saying is she draws too much attention to herself.

Anyway, I apologize for hijacking your thread here.
Carry on.

Just gotta deal with it my friend, the frontwoman is suppose to hog the spotlight, it's natural. I wouldn't have it any other way. And it'll just be an act if she did something like hid in the back corner, we all know she's the persona of the band.

[Canto]

Originally Posted by Hedofloe

Wait, so you're saying that once she composes a song, she usually works with someone else for the final arrangement? Or just the vocal arrangement?

The arrangement refers to the "arrangements" column written on CD booklet. So it probably means arrangements of instruments. Or it may refer to the ones who are "in charge of/responsible to the arrangements". I don't have further facts on this.

Namely, the arrangements credits go to:
MM:Kameda (but after listening to the demos I highly doubt how much work SR contributed to the arrangements - loads of elements were borrowed from those demos)
SS:Kameda & Shiina
KZK:Shiina & Inoue Uni (as Bakeneko Killer) except
->Kuki:Shiina alone
->Meisai & Ishiki: not written on single booklet, but a CD commentary site suggests Meisai was arranged by Shiina alone.Since they are sisters on sides of symmetry, they are likely to have the same arranger(s).
->Yattsuke Shigodo:Mori
->String sections: Shiina for tracks 1,8,11 and Mori for track 10
->Winds sections: Shiina for track 8, Mori for track 1,10
HF:Saito Neko

All TJ albums:Tokyo Jihen except
->Himitsu:Izawa
->Tegami:Shiina

[HEDOfloe]

Originally Posted by Canto

HF:Saito Neko

All TJ albums:Tokyo Jihen except
->Himitsu:Izawa
->Tegami:Shiina

Hmmm, if Saito Neko arranged HF, then exactly what did Ringo do asides from writing the new songs? Since some songs were already released in different versions and he arranged them, then what did she do on them? Just organize the vocals to fit the new arrangements?

Also, who did all of the arrangements for TJ?

EDIT: As for what glath said, I agree with cjhobbies that I love Ringo keeping things how they have always been. If she's doing mroe photoshoots than she did before, I guess that can be attributed to the fact that she was not composing music and had more time to build up their image and hype for the album. Also, being a pretty recent convert, how much more shoots is she doing now than before? Seeing the SR.se gallery, it looks like she's always had a camera in her face.

Also, the Strokes' singer does a similar thing as that guy, but not on performances. He always stands to the side during photoshoots and lets one of the other guys be up front. If you didn't know him, you'd probably guess wrong on who was the singer since he's always to the sides. But in concerts, however, he's right up front.

[Canto]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

I see Shiina Ringo going down the Gwen Stefani path, and it kind of bothers me..

You spoke nothing but the truth.

[digdad]

How much of that path is purely her doing though? Probably some, but in a band with a single vocalist, isn't there a general tendency for the media and at least casual fans to place special emphasis on that front person? Especially when the front is a woman, but often with all male bands as well. You mention No Doubt, but this applies to many others: remember Blondie?--name another member besides Debbie Harry. With male bands, I could name Billy Joe Armstrong from Green Day, but not the other guys. When Nirvana was around I could only name Kurt Cobain, and now that we have the Foo Fighters I can only name Dave Grohl.

As far as the vocal recording goes, they could very well be patchworks of several takes. If they are, let me say that I am so glad when they leave in the little intakes of breath found in a lot of her songs before and after drawn out notes. I find those some of the most endearing aspects of the songs.

[fluffiethesock]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

I see Shiina Ringo going down the Gwen Stefani path, and it kind of bothers me. This isn't just about stage direction, but also the sheer magnitude of photoshoots she's done without the rest of the band.

Those were just the photoshoots promoting HF, right? I don't remember any TJ photoshoots without other members of the band present.