New Jihen album: Dai Hakken [2011.06.29]

[Nimh]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Basically what I'm saying is that I think the forum should admit that she's a Jpop performer and little more anymore. Just one person (that's not Maou or JR, who I know are probably more than ready to admit that, or have admitted it years ago.)

I agree that you don't wind up flashing V-signs at cameras with screaming girls (and a couple of token males of doubtful orientation) in the background unless you've deliberately put yourself in that pop-whore environment.

A different Ringo would have had a different gesture. Same with Kameda, though by the look in his eyes I think he's having trouble hiding his embarrassment. Dance, fools, dance for the camera.

This isn't something she's done a lot before, and it has to be a deliberate choice. Far be it from me to wonder WHY---could be the demands of the market, maybe the earthquake, who knows---but from the horrified reactions of some of us, it seems that the image is getting across. That she's SUCCEEDING in putting out a pop-whore image.

I can't help thinking that on one level it's a bizarre piece of performance art. But only time will tell, when/if she gets off the ho-train.

[s3r3nity]

I can't help but think of Ryuukou...it seems like she's going against not the "vogue" of the people, but the "vogue" that she previously defined. If that makes sense.
Basically, while we previously might have interpreted that song to be her celebrating her deviance from the norm...it's actually her saying, hey, fuck it, I don't want to do what I was previously popular for anymore, I'm going to do what I want, even if it is the norm.
IDK. Ryuukou just came on while I was running the other day and I couldn't help but think of that picture and her recent behavior.

[SoulExperience]

I can't believe people are still bitching over this picture. She did it, it's done, move on. If you really don't like her actions, why not just stop caring about her all together? It's called progression, rather it be negative or not. Let her have some fun ffs (Not that anyone could stop her from doing that). It's constant negativity on these forums. Constant.

[jackmanca]

Originally Posted by SoulExperience

I can't believe people are still bitching over this picture. She did it, it's done, move on. If you really don't like her actions, why not just stop caring about her all together? It's called progression, rather it be negative or not. Let her have some fun ffs (Not that anyone could stop her from doing that). It's constant negativity on these forums. Constant.

I wish I could put some clap sounds here!

People change. Nobody stays the same forever. Nobody. At least my favourite artist is always reinveinting herself, and not stuck with an image she created years ago.

[BlueApple]

Hey guys, didn't you know, that posing in a few pictures in a cutesy manner with some equally cutesy pop stars will change your whole entire image and you will be forced to sing cutesy auto-tuned pop songs for the rest of your life? It's totally true.

Anyway, I am just really excited about the new album. The new song, "Atarashii Bunmeikaika," has been stuck in my head all day.

[xephyr]

Originally Posted by jackmanca

Sometimes I think that people mistakes Ringo with some kind of entity, saint or messiah. Let's not forget that she's a mere human being, like you and me.

Wanted to say it but didn't have it in me, thanks

Also lovin' the silly Shiina vids ShadyNook posted, I haven't been a fan long and I've mostly been obsessing over her music rather than videos, took me forever to watch most of her solo PV's and I've barely scratched the surface with TJ PV's, and most of the concert footage.

[Scribble R]

Uh, I think criticising Ringo for that pose is really jumping the shark in terms of EMF-Ringo-bitching.

[deadgrandma]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad

Goodness gracious, the "she's having fun defense!" We have arrived back in 2008!

Oh the 'your using an old defense' defense. Wasn't expecting that.

How is it defending something when it's the truth?

EDIT: And yeah, I actually had to go back to see what photo you were talking about. It's just some goddamn candid shot ffs.
Who's more childish? Ringo for one pose she made or you for making such a big deal about it?

[so_cold]

There's nothing wrong with the pose. I know 30-something Japanese women who do that when someone takes a picture.

However... I sometimes wish MM came out when she was 28. The lyrics wouldn't make as much sense, but then people wouldn't label her fight to record albums in her way true to her artistic vision (frankly a prerequisite quality in anyone worth listening to) as "teenage angst".

And you're pretty much reading posts that say... "Shiina Ringo broke the mold. Now she kind of is the mold. The mold won, yaaaaaaaaaay" ... Excuse me if I don't see that as a cause for back-slapping celebration.

Because one person's reinvention is another person's playing it safe, going mainstream, standing still, particularly when the new single (I don't even know what the name is) sounds like the music to a Saturday morning kids TV show.

Originally Posted by BlueApple

Didn't she want to be a back-up singer for Mariah Carey back in the day? I don't know why, but I think that's hilarious.

That was probably a really positive influence. She's always testing the range of her voice out in earlier songs, maybe it's what made her melodies so animated (random, unsubstantiated theory).

Originally Posted by clakaz

"Challenging, subversive art" is a very well positioned product that fills a fair demand. Much like a Chanel piece. And both serve to the same purposes to their consumers: make them feel good about themselves. Something that reinforces their own image, boost their pride, confirm their social identity.

(I feel like I wrote a twisted school of frankfurt piece)

Very twisted. I don't believe a word of it, that's not why everyone appreciates "challenging, subversive art" and that's not "even" why people might listen to Perfume. Can you support your argument here?

[lazer85]

I guess in the end neither side is going to convince the other, not just because we're all stubborn but because we listen to music for different reasons, some of us for many different reasons depending on the artists and we listen to Ringo for different reasons as well.

Commercial Pop is made to sell to as many people as possible. It can be good but the fact is, it's made for everyone, including people with no musical sense whatsoever, including people with values we may have a hard time understanding. The artist may talk about their vision behind the music and what they wanted to do with it but in the end, it always has profits as the MAIN objective. Less commercial music on the other hand is made with the artists own vision or a very specific type of fans enjoyment prioritized over profit or even perhaps even with profit. I personally find it easier to connect with less commercial music because it's easier to find a personality and connect with some aspect of the human condition...but its often more difficult music to listen to, it takes more out of you or it takes longer to get used to.

The better commercial music is the pop music that still carries a strong vision despite the initial purpose behind making the music, profit. Perfume is like this which makes them better than a lot of other commercial pop music out there. No let's restate that; Yasutaka is like this as he is the artist and those 3 are his replaceable money making tools.

Some other artists visions just happen to be profitable and it may be a complete accident. Most of these end up being pretty legendary. It's all arguable but I tend to think of late Beatles and Radiohead as this although I'm not a huge fan of either.

I think a lot of us thought of Ringo as one of these naturally profitable vision driven ARTISTS who just got rich and famous naturally and now we are kind of getting the sense she is not. We don't know if she was before or if she has never been. Perhaps she is when she can emotionally afford it...it takes more effort than you can possibly imagine to pour your heart into art if you've never done it and maybe she has other things to take care of right now like her son and her future aspirations. It's all understandable and if you don't see the way most of these markets work as exploitation of a overly socialized population, it's probably completely forgivable. I do see this as exploitation though as I believe quality and standards should be AT LEAST at an even level with profit and I don't support anything that isn't at least half quality-driven (reason why I boycott chain stores).

I think a lot of us are just surprised that she isn't what she came across as. It isn't her responsibility to be but we aren't wrong for being disappointed because she really did seem a certain way. It's natural for us to feel a little disappointed. But rather than the art-obsessed like myself being disappointed in her as a person for "selling out", It may be more fair for us to be disappointed that someone we thought was representing us actually is not so similar to us as we thought.

This is not about survival, she can survive and provide for a family on her name til the day she dies. Whatever it is, it is definitely not just these advertising campaigns either. The music is on a different standard than early and mid stuff was.

For me, in ten years if she refers to this as a quarter or mid life crisis and makes a great album that was clearly made with artistic intent over profitability, I'll be really excited. But for an album with 5+ tie ins....I can't really bring myself to feel more than a slight desire to listen and hear what it sounds like and wish for another album that makes me feel like her pre-2006 stuff did. I don't expect you to feel the same way but I hope these forums can understand why because I share a lot of tastes with a lot of you and enjoy you guys.

The two sides of this argument are simply two camps of people who listen to music for different reasons, or at least people who listen to Ringo for different reasons. I don't think any of us are being hypocritical or unfair really, as much as I feel like trying to convince you to feel this way.

I wouldn't even be voicing an opinion on this if it weren't the artists whose music I have felt the most connected to in my life.