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Old 2007.09.08, 06:33 PM   #31
justriiingo
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Rest assured you didn't offend anyone alleon86.
So you're rooting for HZM?
I support you.

By the way, Shiina Ringo is a woman.
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Old 2007.09.08, 06:39 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by justriiingo View Post
Rest assured you didn't offend anyone alleon86.
So you're rooting for HZM?
I support you.

By the way, Shiina Ringo is a woman.
figures.. sorry, it was a typo. Or i always thought SR is a man? she does looks like one at times.
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Old 2007.09.08, 06:52 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by alleon86 View Post
she does looks like one at times.


O ....................M........................G
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Old 2007.09.08, 06:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by alleon86 View Post
To those who will rather have Izawa than HZM, get off from what ever you are smoking. Izawa is not even half of what hzm is capable.

What Hzm brings is invaluable. He brings stage presences and the WOW factor. Don’t you guys think it so fun watching dynamite out because they change up their songs with Hirami and Hzm taking turns spicing up things and keeping the songs fresh? Now, it all Ukigumo , and it gets boring after awhile.

You guys are overrating Izawa song writing, they are not bad but definitely not awesome. You guys say HZM is a bad song writer. At least HzM wrote Gunjou Biyori and it sold 200k. Anybody can replace Izawa. There are plenty of keyboardists that can replace Izawa. Infact, he shows for more enthusiasms playing the guitar than the piano.

You guys say HZM is all brute force. Hzm shows that he can play mellow or jazzy or whatever it is, depending on what kind of song he is playing. Listen to onaji from electric mole concert , or some of his work from PEZ.
My reply was the first one to go into detail about why both bands have been better off ever since HZM decided to concentrate on PE'Z. You've either ignored my comments or you've taken them out of context.

I've heard more and seen more of HZM than probably anyone else in this community except maybe lupin (who joined more to talk about PE'Z than anything else), and I'm telling you, I'm okay with HZM leaving Tokyo Jihen. But on the otherhand, I'm not exactly a Phase 2 lover, because I think the band 'lost' more with Ukigumo than they 'gained' with Izawa.

Performance-wise, *I* could replace Izawa. Heck, you could probably replace him too. I won't deny that for even a minute. But I really do like his songs better than HZM's, even if they weren't made for Tokyo Jihen.

Giving credit where it's due, none of HZM's contributions were hand-me-downs. That's what Phase 2 has become at the end of Adult and onward, you know. If Tokyo Jihen could've performed PE'Z songs (or vice versa), that would've made Izawa versus HZM comparisons more fair, but HZM kept his two roles very separated.

What I said about dynamics, I still stand by. I didn't say he was the same in most/all songs, but rather, that within any individual song, he doesn't have a lot of dynamics, even if every song is different from each other. HZM is a machine that operates in 'modes'. He can change mode in the middle of a song, just like LCD manufacturers can turn the Brightness up or down and rate the "Contrast" of their product by the two extreme you can only experience one-at-a-time, instead of a realtime co-existence of extremes. "Dynamic Range" on audio equipment is defined as the co-existence of quiet and loud noises simultaneously. Maybe that's the term I should've used. HZM can hit the keys more or less hard at different moments of a song, but never simultaneously.

For the music HZM delivers on stage, he's a genius of an engineer (the note structure), but a toddler fingerpainter of an artist (the sensitivity conveyed). Arguably that's what we 'gained' with Ukigumo, but he's nowhere near as exciting to watch, and Izawa is barely exciting, so basically Phase 2 is a borefest on stage who has to cover up their used-to-be oozing personality, with PV-like intrusions in the footage.

Keith Jarrett is the best of both worlds for things that both factions of the fanbase would want in a piano player (well, except maybe for the stage presence - he concentrates too hard on the music and sometimes makes weird noises), but someone like that is too valuable to actually stay with a band.

I still very much enjoy watching HZM's performances - he was the main reason I bought all the PE'Z DVDs and even went to a concert (and the main reason I think Funny Day & Hard Night is an awesome album), because although the rest of the band deserves some credit too, they're not quite as crazy with the instruments they play, as HZM is with the piano.

Let me just put it this way.
If Tokyo Jihen still had HZM...
then Adult would've had two brainiac engineers with no souls, Just Can't Help It wouldn't be anymore exciting than with Izawa because Shiina Ringo holds a short leash (compare Dynamite Out! to REALIVE 2005 if you don't believe me), and "Variety" (and its associated singles) would've been overwhelmed with hand-me-downs from Petrolz, with hardly any alternative source, because it's not HZM's style to write songs where the keyboard/piano doesn't have an especially crucial role, and Shiina Ringo would never allow that. He gets much more freedom to go wild with PE'Z than the freedom he ever got with Shiina Ringo. So he would've wrote maybe 2-3 songs again, and maybe if we were lucky, Kameda would pitch two songs instead of one, and then the rest would've been Ukigumo.
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Old 2007.09.08, 07:14 PM   #35
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You know, four pages related to HZM and I'm surprised no one made a "PE'Z Dispenser" joke yet. So to compensate, a referential post:

I feel yer blues, man, but at least it gave Tokyo Jihen an excuse for starting over somewhat for Adult and its jazz a go go nature. HZM was fun to watch, but as for his departure, he just can't help it if he'd rather focus on PE'Z. He was (at times) a dynamite player, lighting up the stage like he was some sort of Mr. Wonderful, but like others have said, he does shine more as a supestar in PE'Z than in Tokyo Jihen, and I think the natural balance of Tokyo Jihen's musical alignment has almost been restored.

It was a gamble to replace him with Izawa, and perhaps he didn't really dynamite in like HZM, but it turned out all right in the end. So what if the man doesn't have as much identity? It's not like Tokyo Jihen has experienced a blackout or slowed to a crawl; Izawa provides sufficient service to their sound, a more complementing and subtle nature. So c'mon let's go kick back, exercise some stoicism, and enjoy a papaya mango or something.

You won't offend anyone supporting HZM, but just be careful if you like Ukigumo; many wish he would dynamite out.

(That was a little hard, just using English titles.)
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Old 2007.09.08, 07:16 PM   #36
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heheh, thats ok, you get an A for effort +tron
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Old 2007.09.08, 07:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by HEDOfloe View Post
I don't really prefer either HZM to Izawa or Hirama to Uki but HZM has always been my favorite Jihen (asides from Ringo, of course). What I do prefer is Phase 2's music to Phase 1. All those things you said about HZM are the things I loved about him. As much as I like Phase 2's music, I always miss Hirama and HZMs Onstage personalities. HZM was so funny and entertaining and his skills really amazed me. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think you got the wrong message from the people who said they prefer Izawa because I think it's just that they prefer phase 2 as well. I'm sure if HZM and Izawa had played in opposite phases of the band the Izawa fans might be HZM fans just because I they like phase 2s music more, BUT I may be wrong.

I think the arguments that we have over different band members just stem from the fact that the two phases have been so different. It's not about one musician not being able to play different styles because I'm sure that any of the past or present band members could have played in either phase, it's just that the style of music has changed so drastically that members get accused of not being able to play different styles because of that. For example, Phase 1 was dominated by a heavier rock sound so some people think that Hirama and HZM can only play that kind of power music. On the other hand, Phase 2 is still rock but toned down and more jazzy, laid back-sounding and so others accuse Izawa and Uki of only being able to play this style and not being able to rock out like the members they replaced.

I hate to choose sides because I love both phases of the band, just one more than the other. But I also hate to see the musicians on either side being accused of things like this when there is no proof of their lack of skills in specific areas if they have not gone into it. I don't think it's fair to say that Izawa can be replaced by any keyboardist because even if there are many who are as good as him I doubt there are just as much who can play AND compose as well as he can.

EDIT:


There definitely is a clear difference between the performances with and without HZM but I don't think you can bash Izawa's skills just because he's not a great performer. I mean, you just said that you can't tell how valuable HZM is by just listen to the music, so isn't he just as replaceable as Izawa if the music itself does not speak for his value?
I agree with what you're saying. I, too like phase 2 music a little more than phase 1 music. I think it more unqiue and mature than their phase 1 music. I think the type of music is not the arguement here. both Hzm and Izawa didnt do much song writing for education and adult respectively. It not until variety, Izawa takes on a bigger song writing role. That said, they both writing very average songs. It not like if we lose Izawa, we wont have good songs. SR is still the best and Kameda is second. I think SR will start writing again if they really needed a good song.

I understand Izawa people are coming from. They prefer his style more than Hzm hardcore-key bashing style. Right now, they are both just playing songs written by other poeple. You guys are saying Hzm cant play Izawa style. I highly doubt it though considering Hzm piano skills and the fact that he is classically trained. Izawa dont have really a big role anyways, Uki do most of the leads.

For me personally, live performance is VERY important to me, espcially for rock bands. I dont truely see how great a song is until ive seen them perform live. This is when each member skills comes into play. That why i think HZM is pretty important. That is just me though.
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Old 2007.09.08, 07:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by alleon86 View Post
I agree with what you're saying. I, too like phase 2 music a little more than phase 1 music. I think it more unqiue and mature than their phase 1 music. I think the type of music is not the arguement here. both Hzm and Izawa didnt do much song writing for education and adult respectively. It not until variety, Izawa takes on a bigger song writing role. That said, they both writing very average songs. It not like if we lose Izawa, we wont have good songs. SR is still the best and Kameda is second. I think SR will start writing again if they really needed a good song.

I understand Izawa people are coming from. They prefer his style more than Hzm hardcore-key bashing style. Right now, they are both just playing songs written by other poeple. You guys are saying Hzm cant play Izawa style. I highly doubt it though considering Hzm piano skills and the fact that he is classically trained. Izawa dont have really a big role anyways, Uki do most of the leads.

For me personally, live performance is VERY important to me, espcially for rock bands. I dont truely see how great a song is until ive seen them perform live. This is when each member skills comes into play. That why i think HZM is pretty important. That is just me though.
I never said HZM can't play Izawa's style or vice-versa. I'm just saying that the music dominates how they play and they don't dominate how the music is written (unless they did, in fact, write it). Basically, Izawa did not write much on ADULT but it was the ADULT music in general that I like, not just Izawa or any other member. The same goes for Kyouiku. So, if whoever wrote the music has a piano or a guitar being played a certain way, then we won't know how good or bad a person is at another style if the music is not written in that style. I would never say that a person cannot play a certain style because we will never have proof of it since they only write music to play off to a person's strength and not what they are bad at. Now, one could say that they have not done so many songs in any specific style to hide any member's weakness but then if we don't know for sure, then why make the assumption?
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Old 2007.09.08, 08:44 PM   #39
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this is what ive been reading. I wont argue if they are right or not. This is what im getting.

izawa
-more mellow
-more artistic
- more groovy
-better song writer
-like his style more

hzm
-better pianist
-better stage presence


question for you all:
if Hzm said he wants to come back. You are ringo, . You choose Hzm or Izawa as your keyboardist?
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Old 2007.09.08, 08:51 PM   #40
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If I were Shiina Ringo, I'd suppose it would depend upon how lazy (or drained of creative energy) I was. If I were still in my musical prime, I'd choose HZM.
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