Is an album REAL?: The Video Clip Statistics can-of-worms - Page 2

Glathannus · 2007.10.01, 05:35 PM

Oh drat, I forgot about that.

Well...
In KSK's defense, the Meisai PV was based on the album version.

*edit*
I tend to think of the "B-Sides" of Stem as "filler tracks". They're the same as the album but with added noise that doesn't in any way enhance the music, just to make the single symmetrical.

Op2 · 2007.10.01, 05:37 PM

Yeah Tokyo Jihad, but notice that Glath uses the word "arrangement".
Meisei single/album ver have very little difference comapred to Meisei (KSK ver.) to Meisei (Heisei Fuuzoku ver.)

Hardly fresh.

Op2 · 2007.10.01, 05:40 PM

Also, you include PVs on Adult Video, but do not include PVs on the Heisei Fuuzoku DVD because they "were not available at the album's release?" If that is true, so many other PVs can be shifted out?

Maou · 2007.10.01, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Op2

Meisei was a b-side. Regardless of track order, it is still a b-side. The arrangement of Meisei is the exact same as the album version.

No, Stem was a triple A-side with Ishiki and Meisai.

Op2 · 2007.10.01, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Maou

No, Stem was a triple A-side with Ishiki and Meisai.

XD Righttt.
Then,

3.) Any PV of a song version mutual toward an album and a single, is worth a 1 point penalty.
People not only already know what to expect, but chances are they've played the single(s) to death already.

-3?

Glathannus · 2007.10.01, 05:58 PM

Stem went out-of-print though.
So arguably it wasn't even a 'real' single except that the Single ver. got immortalized by the PV that still remains available to this very day. The less 'real' the B-Sides were, the "more real" that made the album.

As for Heisei Fuuzoku, "motion graphics" work for a DVD-A because they're devoid of organics and don't require as much of The DVD Bandwidth (the majority of which was reserved for audio on this DVD-A) as any footage that includes live action. Live action is much more difficult to compress without making it look grainy or washed out. Compare the TV rip of Kono Yo no Kagiri to the DVD-A version. The TV rip had more room for video quality because there wasn't insane quality audio.

Hatsukoi Shoujo could've been a feasible PV (being broadcast on television and sold in a PV volume not oriented toward audio) if they didn't have their intro and outro above the water, because those parts look terrible. But the fact is, there wasn't a combination of Shiina Ringo and the studio executives, believing that any of the video clips for Heisei Fuuzoku should be on MTV, even though material like Ringohan Yume no Ato made it to there.

HEDOfloe · 2007.10.01, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Glathannus

even though material like Ringohan Yume no Ato made it to there.

That material was amazing, though.

Op2 · 2007.10.01, 06:10 PM

Going out of print doesn't effect it being a single or not. You have to admit that it was a triple A-side, and therefore loses points. If it was purchasable before, it wasn't fresh; you can't argue that.

You don't know how much work it took to make the Heisei Fuuzoku DVD PVs. Traditional art with digital isn't easy, but you can't argue that it was a PV - a promotional video; Oiran and Hatsukoi Shoujo are PVs.

Also, Tsumiki Asobi was exclusive to Sexual Healing, and was released after the CD, wayyy after, so it also doesn't count, same with Adult Video. (Tsumiki Asobi was never aired) Identity was released way after SS. Ughh XD I don't even want to explain more. I love the idea of this post, but there are so many flaws in your rules.

"1.) Any PV exclusive to a single version of a song, is worth 3 points.
This creates buzz for an upcoming album release by giving people a taste of the composition, but not the arrangement, and makes the album and singles more mutually collectible."

By that definition, Heisei Fuuzoku would benefit from the PVs of Meisei, STEM, etc etc. I know you are going to try to defend this, naturally, but the bottom line is that the system really does not make sense.

Tokyo Jihad · 2007.10.01, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Op2

You don't know how much work it took to make the Heisei Fuuzoku DVD PVs. Traditional art with digital isn't easy, but you can't argue that it was a PV - a promotional video; Oiran and Hatsukoi Shoujo are PVs.

I can guarantee the work that went into the HF dvd was far below that of even the most basic of music videos. They're not "promoting" anything, its like going to an art show and because theres background music playing, calling it a theatre production

Glathannus · 2007.10.01, 06:32 PM

I counted post-album PVs of Adult that were broadcastible, and that remained true to the album versions of the songs. Adult Video was a mixed bag in terms of whether a particular PV was or wasn't usable to promote the actual album. Because I gave Adult some credit (instead of all-or-nothing for Adult Video), that makes any other post-album-release PVs (of album version audio) fair game. Not everyone buys (or hears) a new album the instant it comes out, so PVs can still reach out to the more casual fans.

Single versions should only be counted if there's nothing else being released inbetween the single(s) and the subsequent album. Koufukoron (single ver) could still be casually aired on MTV while Muzai Moratorium was out or coming out. If you only broadcast recent PVs, then none of the KSK PVs (from three years before) can really be used to help Heisei Fuuzoku, right?

The only hole in my system that I won't (yet) defend here, is the impact of concert PVs. The Ringohan DVD and the Heisei Fuuzoku CD were released on the same day, and Ringohan was getting the broadcasted PVs of full songs (two of them almost carbon copies on Heisei Fuuzoku), while Heisei Fuuzoku was getting barely-pushed-out Sakuran promo clips that for awhile (up until the movie ticket Bonus DVDs), weren't even complete songs. You could say the MTV clips "promoted both products", but how do you go about bonusing or penalizing the scores for that? Just because the products came out on the same day, doesn't necessarily make that practice okay. Arguably the arrangements (that made their way into Ringohan PVs) should've been drastically different between Ringohan and Heisei Fuuzoku. It's better to leave that aspect of the scoring alone and just say that Heisei Fuuzoku is "the slight lesser of the two unreals" than Variety.

2007.10.01, 05:35 PM	#11
Glathannus True Final Boss Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2,423	Oh drat, I forgot about that. Well... In KSK's defense, the Meisai PV was based on the album version. edit I tend to think of the "B-Sides" of Stem as "filler tracks". They're the same as the album but with added noise that doesn't in any way enhance the music, just to make the single symmetrical. __________________ You know Tokyo Jihen is a supergroup, when you can't blame most of the members for wanting to pursue other projects.

2007.10.01, 05:58 PM	#16
Glathannus True Final Boss Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2,423	Stem went out-of-print though. So arguably it wasn't even a 'real' single except that the Single ver. got immortalized by the PV that still remains available to this very day. The less 'real' the B-Sides were, the "more real" that made the album. As for Heisei Fuuzoku, "motion graphics" work for a DVD-A because they're devoid of organics and don't require as much of The DVD Bandwidth (the majority of which was reserved for audio on this DVD-A) as any footage that includes live action. Live action is much more difficult to compress without making it look grainy or washed out. Compare the TV rip of Kono Yo no Kagiri to the DVD-A version. The TV rip had more room for video quality because there wasn't insane quality audio. Hatsukoi Shoujo could've been a feasible PV (being broadcast on television and sold in a PV volume not oriented toward audio) if they didn't have their intro and outro above the water, because those parts look terrible. But the fact is, there wasn't a combination of Shiina Ringo and the studio executives, believing that any of the video clips for Heisei Fuuzoku should be on MTV, even though material like Ringohan Yume no Ato made it to there. __________________ You know Tokyo Jihen is a supergroup, when you can't blame most of the members for wanting to pursue other projects.

2007.10.01, 06:10 PM	#18
Op2 Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ghanada Posts: 270	Going out of print doesn't effect it being a single or not. You have to admit that it was a triple A-side, and therefore loses points. If it was purchasable before, it wasn't fresh; you can't argue that. You don't know how much work it took to make the Heisei Fuuzoku DVD PVs. Traditional art with digital isn't easy, but you can't argue that it was a PV - a promotional video; Oiran and Hatsukoi Shoujo are PVs. Also, Tsumiki Asobi was exclusive to Sexual Healing, and was released after the CD, wayyy after, so it also doesn't count, same with Adult Video. (Tsumiki Asobi was never aired) Identity was released way after SS. Ughh XD I don't even want to explain more. I love the idea of this post, but there are so many flaws in your rules. "1.) Any PV exclusive to a single version of a song, is worth 3 points. This creates buzz for an upcoming album release by giving people a taste of the composition, but not the arrangement, and makes the album and singles more mutually collectible." By that definition, Heisei Fuuzoku would benefit from the PVs of Meisei, STEM, etc etc. I know you are going to try to defend this, naturally, but the bottom line is that the system really does not make sense. Last edited by Op2 : 2007.10.01 at 06:13 PM.

2007.10.01, 06:32 PM	#20
Glathannus True Final Boss Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2,423	I counted post-album PVs of Adult that were broadcastible, and that remained true to the album versions of the songs. Adult Video was a mixed bag in terms of whether a particular PV was or wasn't usable to promote the actual album. Because I gave Adult some credit (instead of all-or-nothing for Adult Video), that makes any other post-album-release PVs (of album version audio) fair game. Not everyone buys (or hears) a new album the instant it comes out, so PVs can still reach out to the more casual fans. Single versions should only be counted if there's nothing else being released inbetween the single(s) and the subsequent album. Koufukoron (single ver) could still be casually aired on MTV while Muzai Moratorium was out or coming out. If you only broadcast recent PVs, then none of the KSK PVs (from three years before) can really be used to help Heisei Fuuzoku, right? The only hole in my system that I won't (yet) defend here, is the impact of concert PVs. The Ringohan DVD and the Heisei Fuuzoku CD were released on the same day, and Ringohan was getting the broadcasted PVs of full songs (two of them almost carbon copies on Heisei Fuuzoku), while Heisei Fuuzoku was getting barely-pushed-out Sakuran promo clips that for awhile (up until the movie ticket Bonus DVDs), weren't even complete songs. You could say the MTV clips "promoted both products", but how do you go about bonusing or penalizing the scores for that? Just because the products came out on the same day, doesn't necessarily make that practice okay. Arguably the arrangements (that made their way into Ringohan PVs) should've been drastically different between Ringohan and Heisei Fuuzoku. It's better to leave that aspect of the scoring alone and just say that Heisei Fuuzoku is "the slight lesser of the two unreals" than Variety. __________________ You know Tokyo Jihen is a supergroup, when you can't blame most of the members for wanting to pursue other projects.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

2007.10.01, 05:37 PM	#12
Op2 Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ghanada Posts: 270	Yeah Tokyo Jihad, but notice that Glath uses the word "arrangement". Meisei single/album ver have very little difference comapred to Meisei (KSK ver.) to Meisei (Heisei Fuuzoku ver.) Hardly fresh.

2007.10.01, 05:40 PM	#13
Op2 Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ghanada Posts: 270	Also, you include PVs on Adult Video, but do not include PVs on the Heisei Fuuzoku DVD because they "were not available at the album's release?" If that is true, so many other PVs can be shifted out?