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Old 2007.10.01, 07:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by justriiingo View Post
...So Adult and Variety are the least "real" albums because of how perfect the recording is.

SS & Kyouiku static for the win!
ADULT is one point under SS. What are you talking about?

Is this your prejudice against the album manifesting itself and using the album in place of Variety?
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Old 2007.10.01, 07:40 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Op2 View Post
In terms of Hatsukoi Shoujo and Oiran, they are PVs.
You are a moron if you think otherwise. ANYTHING THAT GETS PLAYED ON A MUSIC CHANNEL (like, crappy 3d animation, (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GmqV1nZ01Dg), etc etc) IS A PROMOTIONAL VIDEO. Do you think EMI paid MTV and SpaceShowerTV to play those videos for nothing? They were promoting the Heisei Fuuzoku DVD. They are PVs. Seriously, ANYTHING can be a PV is it is used to PROMOTE. They were played on MTV and SpaceShowerTV. Look at the crappy Otsuka Ai PV I linked.

Anything will be played if the label pays for it. Once again, this isn't like America where videos "chart" - the labels pays to promote them. HENCE THE NAME "PV".

This whole thread turned into an argument of semantics, which is extreme irony in a topic trying to develop a clear cut "system".
I remember there being really watered down WMV streams for Hatsukoi Shoujo and Oiran, but I don't recall those ever being broadcast.

You seriously mean to tell me that Traffic Cone Giraffes made it to MTV and Space Shower Networks?
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Old 2007.10.01, 07:41 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Glathannus View Post
I remember there being really watered down WMV streams for Hatsukoi Shoujo and Oiran, but I don't recall those ever being broadcast.

You seriously mean to tell me that Traffic Cone Giraffes made it to MTV and Space Shower Networks?
Sadly, yes.
Watch my edit for links. (EDIT: See attachment)
Attached Images
File Type: png vlcsnap-34680.png (134.3 KB, 61 views)
File Type: png vlcsnap-34176.png (181.9 KB, 59 views)

Last edited by Op2 : 2007.10.01 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 2007.10.01, 07:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
Hedo, you don't have to keep arguing just to keep arguing.
I'm not arguing for the sake of it, just until someone gets my point or proves it wrong. I agreed with Glath on what he said.
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Old 2007.10.01, 07:49 PM   #45
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How about open a new thread titled 'No Arguments'


lol.
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Old 2007.10.01, 07:55 PM   #46
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Seriously, you don't have to argue or discuss if you don't want to but don't tell others in the FORUM to refrain from it as well.
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Old 2007.10.01, 08:24 PM   #47
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Alright Op2.
Then we'll just treat the Heisei Fuuzoku PVs like the Adult ones that were released months later - they promote themselves (or more specifically a companion product) rather than the CD, especially if you can only buy them with crossfading. I was just trying to give Adult some credit (even if I don't like most of Ukigumo's playing), rather than no credit, especially since the Adult Video PVs are not so oriented at being played back-to-back (except for Kabuki which isn't a complete PV and not really being counted - it's pretty much isolated to Adult Video only - not the kind of thing you can feasibly spread around).

Not taking into account the Dynamite tour debut of Himitsu and Superstar and Toumei Ningen, (or the Saito Neko concert debuts of various Heisei Fuuzoku arrangements) I thought most/all of my scoring was fair. You can buy a completely segregated Stem PV and it's a version of the song that came out before KSK. No PVs in Heisei Fuuzoku (that you can buy) are segregated, but Kono Yo no Kagiri still counts because its PV was broadcast before the single or the album CD. Shuraba would still count even if Adult Video were a crossfaded mess like Heisei Fuuzoku.

So I guess something counts as a PV (for purposes of my scoring system) if it were ever broadcast prior to the album CD, and/or if there's an official (EMI retail) DVD you can get a segregated rip from to spread around, and under one or both of those conditions, the audio of the PV has to be from an album or single version. Keep that clause and my system still works.
(it's not like tax laws are any less complicated - they have all kinds of deductions and penalties - and those systems remain a work in progress with all kinds of kinks to smooth out)
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Old 2007.10.01, 08:56 PM   #48
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In any case, it still works out quite nicely regardless of whether or not the community's common conceptions closely coincides (or perhaps it works out because of that reason, I don't know).

It would be nice if any future work (or other artists' works, for that matter) holds up to your album scoring, because as far as SR/TJ goes it's got a decent track record so far (no pun intended).
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Old 2007.10.04, 06:31 AM   #49
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i think a non album version of a song after an album comes out just proves the artist is talented at songwriting if its good and would definetly support me buying the album, more than the album version.
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Old 2007.10.04, 07:29 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by lazer85 View Post
i think a non album version of a song after an album comes out just proves the artist is talented at songwriting if its good and would definetly support me buying the album, more than the album version.
The original reasoning goes, that a single version getting its own PV prior to album release, generates more intrigue amongst the public - particularly the fans who are waiting for the album. I remember when there was buzz about an "Adult ver." of Shuraba long before anyone knew what it would sound like - we didn't get this intrigue with OSCA or Killer Tune. It's not like my scoring system is out to fuck Adult or anything - it scored higher than Kyoiku from a marketing standpoint.

When the Adult PVs of alternate song versions came out, they were marketing themselves more than they were marketing the album. You could get standalone audio for those versions only on LP, and everyone gets the sense that the LP was made for the PVs, not, the PVs were made for the LP. This is a rather proposterous thing to do, as they should have released a LP for the Adult album instead, especially if it had such higher production values than Kyoiku.

If the PVs were really so much for the album, then why didn't the LP reflect that? I could understand them wanting to make the LP different, perhaps by including the full tracklist of Adult, but swapping out Tasogare Naki with the For Mother version, and maybe throwing in a bonus track, but that's not what they did, which goes to show that this wasn't as serious of an effort as KSK. The concept of the "Tokyo Jihen" band was intended from the very beginning to allow Shiina Ringo to gradually (but surely) rest on her laurels.

Similarly, most of the PVs associated with Kyoiku were accomodated by the Gunjou Biyori / Sounan LP (because of the B-Sides and too few album exclusives), but at least that LP double-single came out on the same day as the CD album, so if it even had alternate arrangements of songs, they wouldn't have been post-album.

I have a very strong suspicion we won't get Variety (in its entirety) on LP - just another double single, possibly with some B-Sides swapped out for album tracks - because they hate us.
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