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Old 2007.05.13, 07:32 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Everything is opinion. Facts are just opinions that we have widely agreed on to be true. Do we have to go back to the basics now?
I think, therefore I am. FACT.
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Old 2007.05.13, 08:19 PM   #62
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It's only your opinion that you think.
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Old 2007.05.13, 08:31 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Jer View Post
It's only your opinion that you think.
Oh I laughed so hard when I read that
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Old 2007.05.13, 08:42 PM   #64
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How so? The proposition that I am thinking is self evident. Surely the fact that I am thinking verifies the fact that it must be true. You can doubt absolutely anything, but yourself. The only way for something to be untrue is if we are being deceived, or we have a lack of knowledge and understanding. If I am being deceived, I must exist in order to be deceived or else there is nothing to deceive.

Give me one circumstance in which you can deny the existence of your own thought.
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Old 2007.05.13, 08:56 PM   #65
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I didn't argue your existence, nor did I argue that you are thinking or are not thinking. I stated it was your opinion that you are thinking. Verity and truth are funny words -- what's associated with them is constantly changing. A thousand years ago or two it was considered truth/fact that the Earth was the center of the universe. Why? Simply because the opinion was widely agreed upon.

I could easily claim that a greater power has controlled my mind and forced me to think the thoughts I do. Ever heard of brain-washing?
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Old 2007.05.13, 08:59 PM   #66
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I am breaking up my love affair with how much people are stating opinion as fact in this thread. I just feel so alone in this relationship....It's not working.

//runs crying
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Old 2007.05.13, 09:03 PM   #67
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I am not arguing the existence of anybodies thoughts but my own, in your case it will be your own. Hence 'I think, therefore I am'.

I could easily claim that a greater power has controlled my mind and forced me to think the thoughts I do. Ever heard of brain-washing?
I will quote myself,

If I am being deceived, I must exist in order to be deceived or else there is nothing to deceive.
You yourself have not denied your thought, you have simply doubted any control over the thought. Whether you are in the Matrix, or a brain in a jar being probed by a mad scientist, your thoughts exist and you cannot deny that they do, though that isn't to say that you have to trust them. Maybe you are being brainwashed, but again, in order for your thought to be deceived, it must exist in some form or other.
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Old 2007.05.13, 09:09 PM   #68
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fact, opinion, opinion, fact.

nothing is absolute.
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Old 2007.05.13, 09:11 PM   #69
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Ew, Matrix references.

If the thoughts are being implanted in my head, they are not truly my thoughts. Also, if the thoughts are implanted into me I don't actually have my own thoughts and thus cannot be deceived. Simply controlled.

Tools and robots do not think so by your borrowed logic they must not exist.
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Old 2007.05.13, 09:20 PM   #70
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I never said the thought had to be your own, only that you had to think it. No matter what the source of the thought, it is the fact that you are thinking it which is wholly true. If you want to deny this thought just because it may not be your own, then I can just dilute the phrase to 'Thinking is occurring'. Either way, we end up with a fact.
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