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Old 2007.12.12, 03:31 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by justriiingo View Post
And then you have the music, which is universal and does not need to be translated.

For her next album I want SR to write just pure music, and if she insists on showcasing her vocal range let it be just meaningless phonetical syllables that match the music. Then the music will be up to the listener's interpretation, based on the feelings that the music evokes in the listener.

I know she's capable of that.
I think this is already the case with most of us since there are only a few here that understand Japanese. Pretty much every Japanese musician I listen to is because of the music first, and then whatever feeling I get from it is what I interpret the song to be about. I guess it would be cool if she were to do this so even the Japanese speakers wouldn't understand it, but I don't think it'd be too different of an experience for the rest of us
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Old 2007.12.12, 09:03 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by kuro_neko View Post
this has always been a moot point since Ringo has the furigana for "kalk" written right above the kanji, and then she puts the kanji for what she means below it, much in the same way she writes "zaamen" above the kanji for semen "seieki"

I subscribe to Kalk Semen Chestnut Blossom

edit: did you also know translation in Italian means "treason"? Translating ANY language you are never going to get the exact same meaning, ever. I mean look at how liberally Ringo translates her own titles so as to fit the symmetry and everything.
Thinking about it, I prefer "Chalk, Semen, Chestnut Blossoms/Flowers" because it makes the acronym of the album CSC, keeping with the symmetry of the original KSK.
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Old 2007.12.12, 09:54 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by inaux View Post
http://blog.pixnet.net/hearmhl/post/9940782

According to this blog (it's in chinese), kalk/karuki/加爾基 is a Japanese bleach brand name, which makes sense as it resembles the smell of the latter two.
A Japanese information page (written in Japanese) made no mention of it being a bleach brand name, it just talked about it being the same thing as chlorine pellets dropped into pools. So I don't know how accurate that is, if a Japanese page isn't even going to mention the brand name. Shouldn't it be the first thing a Japanese person thinks of?

Originally Posted by kuro_neko View Post
When I try and translate Japanese to English I feel totally and completely incompetent whereas when I'm just existing inside a Japanese mental space it is much more comfortable. You just switch your brain over, the boundaries and rules are different. It is like Mac and PC. You do one and you do the other, but when you go from one to the other sometimes things get effed up.
I agree that it can be hard to make the switch from Japanese mental space to an English one, and that sometimes it does feel like going from PC to Mac, but it's possible, it really is, to exist in both at once, which is the beauty and the joy of translation. I love reading a Japanese sentence, holding the meaning in my mind, and then translating that meaning over, rephrasing it so it's English, then (if needed) rewriting that English later so it sounds more natural. More and more a natural English translation for a sentence will just pop right into my mind as my understanding of Japanese deepens. I used to get pretty stumped (as can be evidenced by my mistakes in older translations, not all of which have been corrected yet) but it's getting easier and easier to simply, immediately understand what the person is saying, and then transfer it over.

I love translation so I will always defend it as a viable medium and say that while, yes, a seamless perfect translation that carries over every single meaning will never exist, you can get very damn close, and that it's fun as hell trying. (And besides, those types of rants go nowhere because translation/interpretation will always be demanded, no one who can't understand a text is going to be satisfied being told that "Even if you read a translation, IT WON'T CARRY OVER 100% OF THE MEANING SOMETHING WILL BE LOST." They'll just be like "...so? I want to know anyway.")
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Old 2007.12.12, 04:38 PM   #94
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oops I got caught up in the chalk/lime argument I forgot about the OP link; yeah that should be more accurate.
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Old 2007.12.12, 08:39 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by frecklegirl View Post
A Japanese information page (written in Japanese) made no mention of it being a bleach brand name, it just talked about it being the same thing as chlorine pellets dropped into pools. So I don't know how accurate that is, if a Japanese page isn't even going to mention the brand name. Shouldn't it be the first thing a Japanese person thinks of?



I agree that it can be hard to make the switch from Japanese mental space to an English one, and that sometimes it does feel like going from PC to Mac, but it's possible, it really is, to exist in both at once, which is the beauty and the joy of translation. I love reading a Japanese sentence, holding the meaning in my mind, and then translating that meaning over, rephrasing it so it's English, then (if needed) rewriting that English later so it sounds more natural. More and more a natural English translation for a sentence will just pop right into my mind as my understanding of Japanese deepens. I used to get pretty stumped (as can be evidenced by my mistakes in older translations, not all of which have been corrected yet) but it's getting easier and easier to simply, immediately understand what the person is saying, and then transfer it over.

I love translation so I will always defend it as a viable medium and say that while, yes, a seamless perfect translation that carries over every single meaning will never exist, you can get very damn close, and that it's fun as hell trying. (And besides, those types of rants go nowhere because translation/interpretation will always be demanded, no one who can't understand a text is going to be satisfied being told that "Even if you read a translation, IT WON'T CARRY OVER 100% OF THE MEANING SOMETHING WILL BE LOST." They'll just be like "...so? I want to know anyway.")
yeah. I think it has a lot do with how Japanese as a second language/foreign language is taught. In my program, and in the majority of most programs, they generally don't place a high value on translation from one language to another. The primary goal is fluency in the second/foreign language first and foremost. AKA when you are in a Japanese class you are forbidden from using English, period. If you ask a question it must be in Japanese and when you get an answer back or explain something to a classmate, likewise. When I have translated things from English to Japanese the first thing I have always had to do was discard any literal translation, you can't just literally translate and not have it sound awkward. With Japanese to English, the primary obstacle for me personally lies in the grammatical differences between English and Japanese, English being SVO and Japanese SOV. I would like to preserve the beauty of the phrasing and flow of words, but it just isn't always possible, so instead you must find an equivalent that works in a similar way in English. I know it is such a stretch to wish for fluency in any second language, so my goal, above and beyond translating, has always just been fluency and a natural command of the language in its own terms. Having English and Japanese flow through my head at the same does happen, and it always produces a mixed response inside my head, kind of like whoa what? I went to go see Babel and only 1/4 of that movie is in English so I ended up just reading the Japanese subtitles and ignoring the English dialogue because of the 1/4 of the movie that wasn't subtitled (the part in Tokyo). Or for example my boyfriend last year would speak in Japanese and I would answer back and in English sometimes when we were annoyed at each other. We would have these bilingual fights (you always revert back to your native language when pissed off) and it was always kind of odd for bystanders to hear it, hahah. But you don't think about language, it just becomes about comprehension at that point.
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Old 2007.12.13, 02:46 AM   #96
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Swedish: Kalk, sperma, kastanjeblomma

(you always revert back to your native language when pissed off)
I have to agree here. In times of distress, native language is often fallen back to for me... um I mean, sometimes that's not possible, so I fall back to English. Which means as for me I guess the core is Swedish, with English surrounding it and on top of that a skindeep crust of Japanese.

Last edited by Jonny : 2007.12.13 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 2007.12.13, 02:53 PM   #97
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yeah it depends on your language. I mean if I was German I would probably not revert to English to bitch or swear...whereas if you speak like Japanese you might revert to English swear words. Some languages just have that nasty quality, XDXD

nothing feels the same as a good fuck

or as potent as a sharp cunt

O.o
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Old 2007.12.13, 03:12 PM   #98
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While playing pool on national television....

Gackt Yells F*CK
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Old 2007.12.13, 07:23 PM   #99
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^ Take your fanboyism to a different sub-forum before I slap you with an inflated Gackt condom (they're included with Sixth Day first-press), since that's really all I can do without mod powers.

That's been on YouTube for years, under slightly different titles from various different uploaders (with or without TV networks getting it taken down), making it seem more fresh than it really is.

After you watch at least 3 Gackt non PV/concert videos on YouTube, you come to realize how much of a perfectionist the man is at anything he pursues, even when he doesn't quite triumph. Doesn't mean I always like his style of music, but you have to give Gackt credit for trying.

The moment is still hilarious even if you're not a Gackt fan.

Anyway, let's get a little more on-topic here. Any Japanese artist who performs in Tokyo Dome is overrated even if they're good, which in its own way, makes such artists more off-topic to reference within this community, because Shiina Ringo (and especially this album) is (or was) about breaking the corporate-tested genre molds that run rampant within the industry.
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Old 2007.12.13, 07:50 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Glathannus View Post
Anyway, let's get a little more on-topic here. Any Japanese artist who performs in Tokyo Dome is overrated even if they're good, which in its own way, makes such artists more off-topic to reference within this community, because Shiina Ringo (and especially this album) is (or was) about breaking the corporate-tested genre molds that run rampant within the industry.
I disagree. For her upcoming New Rhythm tour YUKI will be playing two days at the Tokyo Dome and two days at Budokan. I don't think she is overrated in the least.
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