Go Back   Electric Mole Forums > Shiina Ringo & Tokyo Jihen > Product Reviews & Information
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Product Reviews & Information Discuss singles, albums, and DVDs.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2012.10.14, 08:07 PM   #911
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,995
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

I wouldn't worry about other people's opinions when yours is so in dire need of aid =)
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.14, 08:13 PM   #912
Inseu
Senior Member
 
Inseu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,667
Inseu has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Default

Likewise. How dare Ukigumo and Izawa make music other people enjoy? Everything from them must be generic garbage. Ringo has absolutely no artistic integrity here, didn't even write her own lyrics and that broke your heart. We get it.
Inseu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.14, 09:34 PM   #913
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,995
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

This is patently un-true, see Petrolz and Appa. Generic would be the very last thing to label them with. While I never said I cared about Ringo writing her own lyrics, not sure where that comes from, I certainly question her lack of integrity these days. In fact, its extremely apparent if we go back to Ukigumo and Izawa. Compare their work with the bands they lead to the band they share with Shiina Ringo. For Ukigumo and Izawa its pretty hard not to see Jihen is their commercial cash cow where they sidestep saying anything artistic and serious for the sake of making a product. It is only more difficult to see this with Shiina as she no longer treats her work away from the band any different.

The fact you pick out Oasis to defend Variety is pretty shortsighted. While I wouldn't say Variety took inspiration from the Gallagher bros, there are many many converging ideas. Both bands (hence forth I will refer to Jihen as the specific post-Adult era incarnation) aimed to make music for wide appeal. You use arena rock in a derogatory manner, yet I assume you don't bat an eye at Bon Voyage. If having a huge crowd singing along, waving crowds isn't essentially the same thing that happens at Oasis concerts, then someone has been playing a very elaborate trick on me over the years. Both bands liberally borrow from 60's popular music. Profoundly original has never been an accusation of Oasis; listening to both Definitely Maybe and Variety will produce extensive homage-lists. None very subtle. While it's difficult to delve any deeper from here without pulling out >opinion there is one key difference why Oasis works and Jihen doesn't. The difference is artistic choice. Yes, I'm applying the A-word to Oasis when even the band themselves would balk. But there was certainly one artistic choice the band ever made that was their biggest blessing and their biggest curse. When they chose music to take "inspiration" read: borrow from, they took artistic license in the scope from where they would choose and how they applied. They borrowed from The Who, Zepplin, Slade, T.Rex, all very analogous bands. When they would borrow from outside this heavy brit-rock range, like nicking a riff from Abba, or a melody from a TV ad, they repurposed it, owned it and remade it in their sound. This gave the band focus (and no less helped them reach a very large audience.) Of course, the con came a few years afterwards when maybe you grew tired of Oasis being predictable, but they nonetheless had a focused sound.
That's always been Jihen's heel. They never had focus. They would sample from 60's popular music from everywhere, reconstitute it completely straight, and hope that wide sampling would meet wide audience. Jihen would sample from disco, jpop, hard rock, broadway, etc and just make a disco song, a jpop song, a hard rock song, and a broadway song. Then butt them all together and call it finished. It all feels uncrafted. Oasis may not be particularly heady music, but what they do is anything but uncrafted.

Do listen to more pop-rock albums before thinking of crowning any. And before you say otherwise, do listen more.
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.14, 10:10 PM   #914
Inseu
Senior Member
 
Inseu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,667
Inseu has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Default

Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
That's always been Jihen's heel. They never had focus. They would sample from 60's popular music from everywhere, reconstitute it completely straight, and hope that wide sampling would meet wide audience. Jihen would sample from disco, jpop, hard rock, broadway, etc and just make a disco song, a jpop song, a hard rock song, and a broadway song.
Why would you want focus when the album is called "Variety'? The literal translation of the album title is actually "Entertainment"? Wouldn't you think that making ten songs that have a "focused sound" (whatever that means) would make the album less entertaining?

I disagree that Variety doesn't have a focused sound, sure the songs may come from different genres, but the whole album is basically psychedelic organ-driven pop. And it's awesome.

In terms of style, Ringo's music is never focused. She seems to be more concerned about writing good songs rather than making some kind of coherent concept masterpiece. Consider Shōso Strip, we have the Depeche Mode influenced "Bathroom", the grunge influenced "Identity", and "Instinct" which has a lounge sound, but the album is definitely not "uncrafted". I also feel the same way about Variety. I think it's masterfully, unpretentiously arranged, simple yet effective.

I call it one of the greatest pop/rock albums, and it's just an opinion. My ears honestly feel that way. I am biased because I am attached to Ringo and love every album she made. There is no need to repeat your negative view on the album over and over, as I read plenty of old posts.

Finally, if you were to make a list of the best pop/rock albums, what albums would you choose?

Last edited by Inseu : 2012.10.14 at 10:24 PM.
Inseu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.15, 01:18 AM   #915
deadgrandma
Senior Member
 
deadgrandma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,759
deadgrandma knows what you did last summerdeadgrandma knows what you did last summer
Default

Jihad, if the band cause you so much grief then why stick around all this time?

Probably the same reason I still bother following Tori Amos even though I've HATED the last 3 albums with a passion. Now those are albums truly worth complaining about.
__________________
Disco! Life is dead

Last edited by deadgrandma : 2012.10.15 at 01:44 AM.
deadgrandma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.15, 07:53 AM   #916
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,995
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

Quite the contrary, if Variety was more focused, it would be more enjoyable and thus more entertaining.

Lets think of Variety like a story. Variety feels like a story that starts off a a comedy with one-liners and pies in the face. Then from one scene to the next - a bloody and gruesome assault and political blackmail. The story concludes with a helicopter chase, jumping from building to building, window through window, and Bruce Willis is there suddenly. You'd probably leave the theatre thinking, what the fuck was that? Stories can certainly manage tonal shifts. There are plenty of comedies imbued with great drama, and vice versa, but it takes a steady hand and these tonal shifts have to be earned upfront. You can't go from a Three Stooges, Snooki, joke to There Will be Blood, "I've abandoned my boy!" within a scene. This is what Variety feels like to me. Its tonal shifts feel wholly unearned and too disparaging.

Adult tackled different sounds well. There was variety, and yet the album stood because it had a strong, solid spine throughout. A spine made out of production choices, emotion, and performance. Shouso Strip is a bit of an odd choice, especially since "Yokushitsu", "Identity" and Honnou" seem extremely comparable to me. "Honnou", along with "Sakana", does have bop music influences in them, but it works (in part because it is one choice, but predominately) because it is an influence blended into the over-arching style of the album. Owned and repurposed. Variety makes no attempt at this which makes the album frustratingly heterogeneous. Unearned changes in tone, music not particularly well incorporated with the rest of the songs on the album, coupled with some very undeveloped songs yields an album that is kind of a mess. I find little to be masterful on the album, save maybe some performances. Production choices were flat out bad, and ironically I find the arrangements to be wholly pretentious.

It is your opinion, and I do like that you shared your opinion. Since you had, I found it implicit that you shared it because you wanted to discuss it. I didn't repeat anything negative overtly in my first reply, or imply that your opinion was not valid. I just posted what I felt was my immediate reaction (clicking on the thread, seeing what was there and immediately knew to leave.) I figured this was an understandable reply and said everything you already knew without anyone saying anything. However, you responded with namecalling as though you were a child with a skinned knee to which I responded in kind (which yeah, wasn't my most thoughtful post ever, but old habits die hard. I gave you what you really wanted anyway.) In truth, I do like talking about Variety. It is a tantalizing blunder. I have subscribed to the opinion that it is good to take in good art and bad art to fully understand things. There is worse, but Variety is fascinating because it comes just four short years after a truly magnum opus. Each time I discuss it, I get to think of it in a new way and quantify these ways in which other albums succeeded. So in that respect,. maybe my first reply was selling the thought short, though there wasn't much to go on than "No...LORD no."

Asking me what I think the best/my favorite x album is is a dangerous question. I take these things waay too seriously (but in a fun and self-educational way.) Rather than take a month or two to research, I will name some that I do enjoy. For a pop/rock album that is truly all over the map, you can't go wrong with The Beatles White Album. The Beatles first two records (Please Please Me and With The Beatles) are poppier while still culling from various influences. Perhaps this is not the kind of answer you are looking for. Great pure pop albums from the last decade: Tatu's 200 po Vstrechnoy, The Orion Experience's Cosmicandy and, lover her, hate her, love-to-hate her, Lady Gaga's Tha Fame is as fine a pop album as you can find. More recent pop albums I think are great: Paralytic Stalks by Of Montreal. Talk about blending, this album is a seamless crock pot of music including funk, rnb, pop, rock, drone. Yours Truly, Cellophane Nose by Beth Jeans Houghton is pretty great. What I hear is pretty reminiscent of KZK Shiina (though not necesarily just alike.) Pepe Deluxe's Queen of the Wave is pretty expansive. For a japanese slant, Puffy's Nice! is the finest, unabashed jpop album that I have heard.

EDIT: oh, and to respond to deadgrandma's quality post, I enjoy the community. I like the people I've met. I have friends here, and even those that in years past I haven't gotten along with too well I like and hope I could call friends. I enjoy adding to the community. Shiina Ringo was also one of the best artists of the early last decade. I try, I try to stay out of recent Shiina discussion, because the music is just insipid. But I guess its a sad trainwreck I can't help but look away from. This isn't rocket science or a practical joke.
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena

Last edited by Tokyo Jihad : 2012.10.15 at 01:37 PM.
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.15, 12:28 PM   #917
Inseu
Senior Member
 
Inseu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,667
Inseu has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Default

I guess you cannot stand bands like Naked City and Mr. Bungle then? And we seem to look for different thrills in music.
Inseu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.15, 01:29 PM   #918
matan-san
Senior Member
 
matan-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Israel
Posts: 387
matan-san has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Default

one thing that Variety does right is that it lives up to it's title. to me the whole album is the musical equivalent of a variety show, a japanese one to be specific, and maybe that's what the band was aiming for with the album
matan-san is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.15, 01:32 PM   #919
Tokyo Jihad
Senior Member
 
Tokyo Jihad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio! Hoody Hoo
Posts: 4,995
Tokyo Jihad knows what you did last summerTokyo Jihad knows what you did last summer
Send a message via AIM to Tokyo Jihad
Default

I had never heard of Mr. Bungle, but now that I've heard a few of their songs, Tokyo Jihen sounds like a teenage tribute band of this act.

Things Mr. Bungle has going for them: expanded ideas, much better production, more fleshed out arrangements, better, catchier songwriting.

Never heard of these guys before, but I think you're on point.
__________________
"Jihad is the soul of EMF"--Lena
Tokyo Jihad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.10.15, 02:21 PM   #920
Inseu
Senior Member
 
Inseu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,667
Inseu has had more than 15 seconds of fame
Default

I see the problem now. You aren't as obsessed with Ringo's sexy kitten voice as I am!

She can turn an average rock song like 勝ち戦 into absolute eargasm...that's why I adore almost every song she wrote. The music just sounds heavenly when the listener's fueled by infatuation.
Inseu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[TJ] 2007.11.21 - Senkou Shoujo (DVD) [PV Collection] frecklegirl Product Reviews & Information 182 2011.09.18 06:29 AM
[TJ] 2007.07.11 - OSCA (CD) [Single] frecklegirl Product Reviews & Information 660 2009.07.04 06:43 PM
[TJ] 2007.08.22 - Killer Tune (CD) [Single] frecklegirl Product Reviews & Information 451 2008.05.07 02:58 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:39 AM.