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Old 2010.08.29, 06:42 PM   #31
Jameslicious
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Originally Posted by Maou View Post
Who arranges what is irrelevant. Ukigumo could have chosen to play Ariamaru Tomi exactly as it was on the single as the arrangement is much different. He chose to do it his way instead. His way sucks.
Sucks, to you.

Anyway, I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. The whole band was involved. If Ukigumo had gone and started to play it the way it is on the single, and the rest of the band didn't, then we'd be in trouble. But yeah, moving on...

Originally Posted by Maou View Post
"Flat and flavourless" is a cringe-worthy statement. It's not like either version is all that different. Besides, if anything, the entirety of Adult is "flat and flavourless" with its extremely sterile production. Superstar is actually one of the few songs Ukigumo does remain true to the original. The main guitar line was in the original song. It was played by Hirama during the outro.
Ah, well, you say sterile, I say clean. Personally I liked how it was jazzier than Education. And I love how Variety glistens. I realise I'm in the minority, and I'm cool to agree to disagree here.

Originally Posted by Maou View Post
I do like both versions of Superstar (and Himitsu), but I prefer the Dynamite versions. Hirama played a broken progression for the first two chorus sections of the song to build anticipation for the full progression during the finale. It worked as the Dynamite version picks up quite a bit after the guitar solo. Hirama's non-muted plucking was better and he didn't make any dieing goat noises like Ukigumo did.
Haha, okay. It's different strokes, man. I think Uki adds more than Hirama did, though it depends what you're after. Hirama looked better on stage (so did HZM, for that matter,) but, Ukigumo sounds better. To me. To my eyes and ears.

Originally Posted by Maou View Post
Ukigumo doesn't even have a solo in the Phase 2 version. Playing the main riff up an octave and finishing with a little wankery doesn't make a solo.

I think I would have been fine with it if it had kept the original intro and outro. It didn't and it had nothing to make up for it. I just don't understand the point of the song. The lyrics are the only thing that remained from the original. If you're going to change that much of the song, you might as well just make a new song.
Oh, I agree. But I still liked it.

The point, I'm guessing, is to give the fans and old song with a new sound. Maybe they could've made it a new song. But hey, they didn't, and I liked it, so yeah.

I mean, I'll elaborate if you want, but, I'm not sure there's a point. Not a comment on you, of course.

Originally Posted by Maou View Post
When Phase 1 remade Shiina songs like Tsumiki Asobi or La Salle de Bain, they were awesome. Why? Because they kept elements from the original version of the song while giving it their own flavor. They were very different songs in the end, but still recognizable after breaking them down.
I feel the same about Phase 2 stuff. I know, I know. They're totally different and unrecognisable blah blah, yes, sure, some of the time. But what they do, they do well.

Originally Posted by Maou View Post
I know you want to defend Sounan because you enjoyed it way more than some others here, but that doesn't even begin to make sense. It almost sounds like you're saying bands should remake all their older songs to fit their new style. You don't fuck with classics just because you can.
Maybe it sounds that way, but that wasn't what I meant. I probably could've been clearer.

I'm not saying they should because they can, just that when they (TJ) do, they do it well.

Oh, and I'm not here to defend Sounan. I'm not into Internet fights or anything, I just wanted to share my thoughts on it, and then back them up with some reasons. I get that they won't gel with what most here think, but hey, at least I'm not just saying "UKI SUCKS BECAUSE HE IS NOT MICKY" like I've seen before.

Right?

Originally Posted by Maou View Post
Oh, believe me, I will rip MaruSadi to shreds. Best version is Elecric Mole, BTW.
Wash your keyboard out I liked it, but, Just Can't Help It's version sounded...mature. Evolved. Different in a good way. It sounded like the album version, mostly, on Electric Mole, which is great, but yes.

We're going to go around and around again if we keep going, so I'll sign off at this point
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Old 2010.08.29, 09:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Jameslicious View Post
Oh, and I'm not here to defend Sounan. I'm not into Internet fights or anything, I just wanted to share my thoughts on it, and then back them up with some reasons. I get that they won't gel with what most here think, but hey, at least I'm not just saying "UKI SUCKS BECAUSE HE IS NOT MICKY" like I've seen before.

Right?
Haha. Been so long that I can't remember if that was me, JR, or Jihad. I like you.

I can be highly critical of Hirama too. I criticized him earlier in this thread for his Dynamite Out butcher job of Sounan. Hmm, Sounan again? Just can't beat the perfection that is the studio version...

For what it's worth, I don't hate the Ultra C version. It certainly won't go on their wall of shame with Toumei Ningen or Service (JCHI). I'm more disappointed than anything because it could have been much better.
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Old 2010.08.30, 04:48 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Maou View Post
Haha. Been so long that I can't remember if that was me, JR, or Jihad. I like you.


Originally Posted by Maou View Post
For what it's worth, I don't hate the Ultra C version. It certainly won't go on their wall of shame with Toumei Ningen or Service (JCHI). I'm more disappointed than anything because it could have been much better.
Yeah, Service on JCHI was just...well, I skip it, and I don't often skip tracks. And Toumei Ningen is just a bad song, no matter who plays it

Oh, and, just so you know, I liked Dynamite Out. I thought there should've been less moving about on stage (and putting legs up on boxes, I mean, come on) and more playing of instruments, but hey, I get that it's a show, not a recording session.
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Old 2010.08.31, 09:31 PM   #34
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Man...look at you all...talking about Ultra C. I wanna join!! One of the songs I'm personally looking forward to listening to is Sounan.

Reminds me of the first time I heard Jusui Negai being played on "Just Can't Help It." True, at first I was like "what the hell is this?" What really bothered me wasn't that it had been slowed down some, but Izawa's piano arrangement, as well as Ukigumo. But the more I listened, I came to see it in a different view.

and that was that I was still sticking to Phase one, and not really moving on. How I see it is that Ukigumo did a pretty good job doing it "his way." Wich I believe stayed pretty true to the original...but that's just me XD

For this reason it is that I'm really looking forward to hearing Sounan ^^
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Old 2010.09.01, 05:11 PM   #35
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Sounan was nice, don't worry ;D
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Old 2010.09.01, 06:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Yahiko View Post
Sounan was nice, don't worry ;D

So, like...Just gave it a listen (Thanks to Bingo)...I'm sure what to think of it at the moment. Sounds SO DIFFERENT, gotta listen some more and think on it XD
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Old 2010.09.02, 12:44 AM   #37
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haven't seen it yet,, and based on the "mixed" review here, i guess i'll need to see it first before spending $$ on it..
so.. anyone knows if there's any parts of this DVD on youtube yet?? thanks..
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Old 2010.09.02, 10:37 AM   #38
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OK, so I was going to review every song on the DVD, but when writing it, I realized there really wasn't much to say about some songs. So instead I just did some expanded thoughts on some of the songs that stood out to me. If it's not here, I probably enjoyed it (yes FOUL, no Boutomin). I'm sorry for the length of this post.

OSCA – Let me start off by saying that I’ve always hated this song. It has a weak melody, poor vocals, and is too sugar pop in the verses. However, there were other things in this particular performance that made it memorable for me. First is the new bass solo. Kameda Sage got to perform a new solo before the tempo change/breakdown. It was a throwback to the old Shiina solo days as it sounded very similar to the old intro he would give to Tsumiki Asobi. Ace. The second memorable moment was by Ukigumo. During the band introduction segment, Uki played the riff from motherfuckin’ Walk This Way by Aerosmith. Lastly was Ringo. I’m normally able to ignore the charms of the female body and focus on the music itself. However, I’ll be damned if the visual aspect isn’t an important part of a concert. In this song, Shiina does this incredibly sexy slow sway while singing. God damn.

Rating: 7/10 – Still not a fan of the song.

Ariamaru Tomi – Ah, the single leading Shiina’s solo comeback. This represents a couple of the problems with this band: they can’t perform most of Shiina’s solo catalog with decent quality and Shiina can’t tell her keyboardist when to take a break. All through the night we’ve see Shiina use the guitar mainly as prop to look like she still had the rock persona in her. This song was her chance to show she still cared by performing her song herself. Instead, she pawns the acoustic guitar off to the keyboards and Uki doesn’t play the original guitar riffs. The result is that we get another song penned by Ringo run through the Phase 2 cheese grater. Boring overproduced sounding.

It really pisses me off that the guitar solos were cut in favor of hearing Ukizawa sing some lousy “oooohhh”s. I’ve heard your terrible backing vocals enough already. I don’t need you to interject them into places they don’t belong.

Rating: 4/10 – Much better when performed live by solo Shiina with Nagoshi Yukio.

Ikiru
– I have very similar feelings about this song as I do for Yukiguni. The beginning of this song is very strong when it’s just Ringo singing over the backing piano. This part alone makes it superior to the studio version as there are no annoying male voices taking away from Ringo’s performance. That’s a real blessing because Ringo was on during this performance. Her strong vocal performance was most noticeable during this song. I thought she would definitely blow this song live, but she proved me wrong.

Unfortunately, I can’t get over the terrible implementation of the band in the second half of the song. My first thought when hearing the album version was that they sounded like My Chemical Romance again. Not so much in the live. Still, it sounds like the band and Shiina are playing two different songs. The long, drawn out singing doesn't mesh well with the quicker music.

Rating: 6/10 – It’s better live, but still not a strong song.

Sounan
– If you are familiar with my opinions, you probably know by now that I’m highly resistant to change. Change had better be damn good and for a reason. I see no reason to change Sounan. The album version of Sounan was a song that Shiina Ringo described in pre-Kyouiku interviews as having the “pure Tokyo Jihen sound” to it. Easily one of their best songs. When you see Shiina Ringo perform the song, you don’t see her typical disconnected look associated with her live performances. Instead, she looks completely gutted to be performing this song like this when she looks back at Hata Toshiki.

So why the change? The song has been absent in its original form since the Dynamite days so they can’t say it sounded tired. The original song itself fits in sonically with other songs the band performed that same night such as Noudouteki Sanpunkan and Shuraba. Hell, the original version of Sounan even had a guitar intro that was suggested (not written) by Ukigumo to Shiina Ringo. “We just didn’t want to play Phase 1’s song” is not good reasoning if that’s their excuse. Especially when the song in question is Sounan.

OK, so what about the song itself. It wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t good. Phase 1 Ringo no Uta was a ‘70s action flick song, this is an ‘80s action flick song. The tempo has been picked up a little and it sounds a little rushed. The vocal melody is the only thing that suffers with the slightly quicker tempo. Sadly, the vocals and the few chords Ringo played are the only parts of the original that remain. The guitar intro is gone. The mood setting keyboard has been replaced with a highly annoying organ/air raid siren. The bass has been over-simplified and no longer plays around the guitar. The drums are likewise simplified. Not even the mood of the song survives the transformation.

Overall, though, the song remains decent. It would take much worse to completely ruin the song since it was so well written (structure, chord progression) in the first place. However, there is a very glaring problem with the Phase 2 re-do: it sounds even more like Blackout than ever before. Many on the EMForums have noticed the similarity between the two songs before, but it should be even more evident with this performance.

What should have been the highlight of the night and a throwback to all the fans that have been here since the beginning has just split the fanbase again. Only you can do it like this, Phase 2.

Rating: 5.5/10 – Phase 2 Bossa version was better.

Shuraba
– I was really glad to hear the single version of the song performed here instead of the Adult version. Much better. I was kind of disappointed to see Uki play an electric-acoustic instead of a classical nylon string guitar, but I understand the change. Probably wouldn’t have been worth all the extra effort for the slightly different sound. There were a few missing pieces in the music, but it was still a great performance overall.

Rating: 9/10

Uten Kekko
u – This is the type of song I absolutely hate. It’s a fluffy pop song so sugary sweet that it almost makes me gag. There is no substance to this song at all. It’s just an empty soundscape devoid of any emotion. A Phase 2 trademark.

Rating: 2/10 – stop making these hollow songs!

Sweet Spot
– There was a song playing? Oh, barely noticed with all the boob shots. One of the worst songs on the Sports album. The only saving grace is the nice guitar solo. The live does nothing to save the song. Not even the boobs can save it.

Rating: 3/10 song. 10/10 boobs.

Marunouchi Sadistic
– Please, Ringo, just hang it up. Put in on the shelf and don’t even think of dusting it off until your 20th anniversary shows. It’s that tired and played out no matter how much you try to change it up. All you keep doing is stripping it of sounds. The song used to be fun because of the popping drums and the bass solo. Now that character is gone and all that’s left is a boring, pretentious shell of a song. I know it’s the staple song performed at every concert, but why bother if this is the best you can do with it? Fans won’t riot if you don’t perform it (we didn’t at the Ringo Expo). They’d probably be relieved if they didn’t have to hear another hack job of the song.

Rating: 1/10 – stop the bleeding already.

Kimaru
– I was so happy to see they went with blue lighting for this song. I don’t usually see songs as colors, but the first thing to pop into my mind when hearing this song on Sports was the color blue. I can’t really say more than I already have about the song. This performance was nearly perfection. There was only one very, very slight mistake in the song that I can remember and you probably won’t even notice it unless I tell you what it was.

Rating: 10/10


Overall concert rating: 7.5/10. I recommend it over any of the other Phase 2 DVDs. I liked it even though there were quite a few disappointing moments. In fact, I didn’t even order the Blu-ray until after I saw the performance so that should tell you a little about the quality.
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Old 2010.09.02, 12:05 PM   #39
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I'm looking forward to the Blu-Ray not so much because I'm pro-HD, but more because I'm anti-MPEG2. It's what comes standard to DVDs, and while I won't dare to convert it to AVI or anything else when I rip it (that would just make the video worse), the codec is showing its age in this concert. MPEG2 doesn't handle smoke or lighting very well - which are major elements of Ultra C.
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Old 2010.09.02, 02:09 PM   #40
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lol, the "cheese grater!"

both words are fitting
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