Ringo-written Chiaki Kuriyama single "Tsukiyo no Shouzou" 11/23

[TurtleFu]

This is what I don't understand. If anything, TJ Phase 1 was a huge regression for Ringo, because she restricted herself to a 5 member band. Adult fixed that by allowing sounds from outside the band.

To me, the point from MM Shiina to Shiina now is a very natural and gradual development. It's really not like ALL OF A SUDDEN this Alt-Rocker became a Jazz Singer like you guys seem to think.

Maybe not MM, but the sound is very... teenager ish? The composition is very similar to how she composed songs when she was a teenager. The lyrics MUST have been written when she was a teenager. The difference between her intricate lyrics now and simpler lyrics then is very stark.

[deadgrandma]

If she was still making alt rock I would be bored of her. I like that she's changed so much, makes her more appealing in my book.

OH NO GUIZ SHES DEVELOPED FASSHUN TASTE AND MAKIN JAZZ NAO!

Thats pretty much it.

[Tokyo Jihad]

I don't give a shit about what she's wearing. And she's not making jazz either. She does this limp lounge stuff and showtunes, but the worst of it is that she's not doing anything with these. Its not "Shiina Ringo's take on show tunes" or "Lounge act music through the lens of Shiina Ringo." It is just simply "Shiina Ringo singing show tunes" which only exemplifies how stale each ingredient is.

To Turtlefu: I mean, you could say Jihen was a step backwards, but look what she had to follow. KZK/EM, where do you really go from there? Sure, it might have been pretty cool to keep chasing that dragon, but lots of artists follow a very progressive/experimental/ambitious album with something more down to earth, and usually that more down to earth is either far more refined or more subtle than previous efforts. Lets think The Beatles going from Sgt. Pepper's to The White Album. The White Album is more "traditional" in a superficial sense, but its also very experimental even when you look past the quantity and Wild Honey Pie and Revolution 9.

I like to think that is at some point the bedrock of Tokyo Jihen was to take the traditional rock band set up and push it to the limits. Kyouiku has flashes, Adult pushes in another way; even Variety I think had some of that spirit even as it got more and more muddied. I think that idea was gone by the time Sports came about, but that's neither here nor there. While forming Jihen was more limiting, following KZK, I don't think it was "regressive" as say "Carnation" or the showtune on Daihakken.

[deadgrandma]

As I said, pretty much it :-p

[TurtleFu]

I would certainly call Adult and Sanmon Gossip lounge act music through the lengs of Shiina Ringo.
I mean, yes, Onna no Ko and Carnation aren't really experimental or anything other than nice, well-made, highly-produced songs. And normally, that isn't a bad thing, but we are so used to expecting more from Ringo, right?

[karateexplosion]

>Adult
>lounge act music


...you take that back.

@so_cold: I don't know about anyone else, but my sentiment way back when Oishii Kisetsu came out was not that it would fit on MM, but that it was the most MM-esque thing Ringo's produced in years, which I think is apt.

[kuro_neko]

my opinion on the matter is that if ringo is still capable of writing and producing tracks for other artists that recall earlier eras in her career, that would seem to imply that it was always a *conscious* decision of hers to make that style of music. so who is the true ringo? MM/SS era Ringo? or TJ/SG Ringo? Neither would seem to be intrinsically "Ringo," because as far as we can tell, every move she has made has been a conscious decision of hers. Considering she has talked about her stage persona of "ringo" and disbanding that with the end of KZK and the formation of Jihen, her early solo career would seem to be more a conscious fabrication of styles than what she is currently doing now.

if we aren't getting that in her current career, that must also by the same logic, but a conscious decision of hers. so are we disappointed that she isn't interested doing this or are we disappointed that she is more interested in exploring new genres?

I think the greatest testament to genius is when one sometimes fails at trying something outside their comfort zone, as opposed to stick to what they have proven as being able to accomplish. I may not always like her current work, but I'd rather have Ringo experimental than reliving MM and SS for 20 years.

[Tokyo Jihad]

But what has she really explored? Since "then" she's explored two or three other things and just sort of stuck in those ruts.

[TurtleFu]

One thing that struck me about Sports (which was the first TJ album that I listened to in one full go), was how varied, yet cohesive it was. I think Ringo is trying many things, like the orchestral sound of Carnation, the high-energy pop rock of some TJ, the more traditional rock of TJ (Kaze ni...), some R&B (Otona-tachi), the swing/showtunes of Onna no Ko/Dopamint, etc. So I still think TJ is varying, and going between styles. Jazz/rock/pop/showtunes/swing/R&B/whatever Tengoku is/etc.

Sometimes I question, Jihad, if that you really treasure Ringo's (former) image in addition to her actual music.

[Tokyo Jihad]

MM,SS,KZK are some of my favorite albums
Instead of albums like SG, Sports, Daihakken that were all over the map, but still cohesive (well, SG anyway...) those three are all built from a specific foundation and build upon that in different ways -- and happen to be great music. Certainly better than the latter trio.