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Old 2007.06.24, 06:39 PM   #41
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Well I guess the "problems" only exist to old nitpicking fans... (like me).
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Old 2007.06.25, 10:26 AM   #42
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I suppose your opinion on what counts and what doesn't count depends on why you're a fan, or what you're a fan of. Are you a fan of one or two of her many sounds and hope she'll keep making songs with that sound? Or are you an all-accepting fan of Shiina Ringo because she's really talented and generally makes music you like? Or are you a fan of an album and think everything else she's generated is a disappointment? Or do you worship her as an idiosyncratic rock star goddess and think her every action is hottttt? Let's get to the root of the discussion here.

Personally, I revere her for possessing inhuman quantities of Songwriting Mastery, delivered in eclectic and insanely varied styles and sounds. So, I absolutely love all her albums. They all count. Some may accuse me of being non-critical, but I prefer to see it as having expansive tastes.
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Old 2007.06.25, 10:45 AM   #43
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Lately I've been more and more "disillusioned." What some people fail to understand is that not everyone hopped on bard cuz of Adult, or KZK. Some of us were won by SS (or even MM.) Now those who did, viewed her as a rock demi-godess. She was versatile. She could make rock tracks that weren't "rock" (the Mayonaka single, most of KZK.) Yet no matter how adventerous she became, we knew the bed-rock (shitty pun) was there. We knew she still had the fastballs to lean upon.

The writing to me was on the wall when there was anj interview with Jihen (and i cant remember if it was Jihen or phase 2; but i think it was the first incarnation) where i believe it was Kameda said "we want to make the best pop music out there." I got very put off by that word. It can be hit or miss, sometimes one year's pop is great, and others its razors in my ear. The fact they're Japanese and I largely have great distaste for 98% of jpop did not win me over. I was worried.

Then Dynamite Out heped me sleep easy, but it seems to be the exception and not the rule.

As harsh as it may sound, this is how I'm closer and closer to labeling Shiina: She was poised to be cemented in history as THE premier bastion of old rock and roll for this era -- but every time she came close to clinching it, she lost her nerve.

She was never more 'there' than Electric Mole. The Jihe announcement sorta put everything in question, but even then the potential was still there cuz the band was proven. The album disappointed, but they were killer live and the potential was trying to reach up again upon Dynamite...but since then, I think its been squashed.

I actually think phase 2 is limiting in potential international audience. I believe many are less willing to give it a shot. However, you play "Identity" or "Kuki" or "honnou" or even "Sounan" to an international audience, I think more people will be able to reson to it because they can "get it" regardless of language. They know whats trying to be done in the song, ad they can roll with it. "Osca?" I remain unconvinced.
also, many of the "shes hawt" crowd are on the Adult side of the fence.
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Last edited by Tokyo Jihad : 2007.06.25 at 10:57 AM. Reason: bolding 4 point
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Old 2007.06.25, 12:15 PM   #44
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I began listening to / adoring her music starting with Shouso Strip, but I'm also really enjoying the different styles that she's capable of delivering. It seems to me like she just got bored of what she was doing and moved on to other stuff, which I find to be pretty neat.
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Old 2007.06.25, 06:56 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by zach View Post
I suppose your opinion on what counts and what doesn't count depends on why you're a fan, or what you're a fan of. Are you a fan of one or two of her many sounds and hope she'll keep making songs with that sound? Or are you an all-accepting fan of Shiina Ringo because she's really talented and generally makes music you like? Or are you a fan of an album and think everything else she's generated is a disappointment? Or do you worship her as an idiosyncratic rock star goddess and think her every action is hottttt? Let's get to the root of the discussion here.
Well I'm definitely far from all-accepting am I. SR has a wide repertoire and obviously there are certain sounds she does that I like more than others. Most of the time, I like it better when she blends genres (Aozora) as compared to when she does something straight out (Tadashii Machi), though there are exceptions, obviously (Tsumi to Batsu). She has the ability to take something and adding her own signature to it (where else can you find a song like Kurumaya-san), and writing very complicated arrangements yet still keeping everything "neat" and very listenable (KZK). I love it when my ears pick up all the little flourishes and counterpoints in her music, it's at those moments I think, SR is special (and a songwriting goddess). And I pretty much held on to that thought until... I heard adult, because unlike the previous albums there wasn't so much of these little mischievous, rebellious flourishes that called out to my ears (or maybe they just evolved to a form that elude my ears, but nahh), so I quickly became bored with it. It was a very heartbreaking experience listening to adult, because somehow I felt that the SR I knew somehow wasn't there anymore. As much as I want the upcoming album to blow my mind, I'm mentally prepared that it's not going to be like that.

Note: I never thought SR was hot until she became this classy lady jamming her guitar in that red criss-cross back dress in Sounan. Her image was the last thing that got me into her music. Of course, being that classy lady that she is in TJ is a bonus.
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Old 2007.06.25, 07:05 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
As harsh as it may sound, this is how I'm closer and closer to labeling Shiina: She was poised to be cemented in history as THE premier bastion of old rock and roll for this era -- but every time she came close to clinching it, she lost her nerve.
I don't think that sounds harsh at all because that just means that you preferred her to be just rock instead of more varied.

Originally Posted by justriiingo View Post
As much as I want the upcoming album to blow my mind, I'm mentally prepared that it's not going to be like that.

Note: I never thought SR was hot until she became this classy lady jamming her guitar in that red criss-cross back dress in Sounan. Her image was the last thing that got me into her music. Of course, being that classy lady that she is in TJ is a bonus.
Yea the new album is definately not going to blow YOUR mind away. And I also did not like SR because she was hot since I heard her for the first time without even knowing who was singing it or how she looked.
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Old 2007.06.25, 07:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by HEDOfloe View Post
I don't think that sounds harsh at all because that just means that you preferred her to be just rock instead of more varied.
See, why do you guys make me sound so "distorted gee-tarrs or bust!!" ?? =p
I do like the variety, I gave dap to Mayonaka (single) and everything. The difference was that they were a variety to rock. That only made
her more of a potentially mythical rock icon.

Right now yeah you have variety..but it varies on...more variety? Varies on her past? but theres little to non of her 'past' now to vary the variation.

Do you see now what I'm trying to explicate?

EDIT: OK OK, heres maybe a better example. Micheal Jordan proved he was a really great basketball. Won 3 titles, he was right there among the greats....and then something happens in his personal life and he retires.He then later returns to sports....but playing baseball, wtf? "In his heart"or whatever was the excuse. He was garbage. He was denying what flows in his veins (then he returned and cemented hes the Greatest of all time)
cept i hated Jordan |(
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Old 2007.06.25, 07:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Jihad View Post
See, why do you guys make me sound so "distorted gee-tarrs or bust!!" ?? =p
I do like the variety, I gave dap to Mayonaka (single) and everything. The difference was that they were a variety to rock. That only made
her more of a potentially mythical rock icon.

Right now yeah you have variety..but it varies on...more variety? Varies on her past? but theres little to non of her 'past' now to vary the variation.

Do you see now what I'm trying to explicate?

EDIT: OK OK, heres maybe a better example. Micheal Jordan proved he was a really great basketball. Won 3 titles, he was right there among the greats....and then something happens in his personal life and he retires.He then later returns to sports....but playing baseball, wtf? "In his heart"or whatever was the excuse. He was garbage. He was denying what flows in his veins (then he returned and cemented hes the Greatest of all time)
cept i hated Jordan |(
So now you are saying that her new music is not as good as her old one because it is not what she was meant to make? Because it is the best pop I have ever heard in my life.

Also, I know what you are trying to "explicate" but again, it just means that you like rock more because you like mayonaka because it is a kind of rock but varied. So I'm sorry for making it seem like you don't like variety.
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Old 2007.06.25, 07:43 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by HEDOfloe View Post
So now you are saying that her new music is not as good as her old one because it is not what she was meant to make?
More or less. Whats shes doing now isn't as good because its not "whats in her really"
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Old 2007.06.25, 08:56 PM   #50
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I find it hard to believe that an artist with as much control over the process as SR could possibly make music that was not "what's in her really." I think that what's in her is just broader than most people's taste.
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