How Did We First Discover...?

[Carlx]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

So let me get this straight:
I'm at least partially responsible for you becoming a fan?
Seriously?

I don't talk about Shiina Ringo very much in JPopsuki at all, but I know I really should (I'm probably "failing in my duty" if I don't). That's what shocks me about you bringing my name up.

Now I remember and you are right: it wasn't something about her, but I had read a justification of yours about "why you do not like C-ute" and I instantly looked for the woman on your avatar. Kind of weird but true, it was like an indirect recommendation.

Originally Posted by EmilScherbe

It's actually subjective view, depends on what kind of music you usually heard and preferred.

For peoples who like calm music than noisy rock, KZK is more accesible than others.

Yes, your are right. I was talking from a subjective perspective: it wasn't easy for me to access to KZK world for several reasons, perhaps because of its subtlety and inventiveness, perhaps because of its diversity and homogeneity...

Anyway, I'm not able to call it calm music, noisy rock, waltz or pop, I think it's beyond any genre tags.

[dementedhedghog]

I'm new to the forums here, so I thought here's as good a place to start as any. I first discovered J-Pop in 2002, when I first went off to college and was properly introduced to decent anime. I watched an episode of Inuyasha in which the ending song was from Do As Infinity, went "what the heck was that!" and have been down the rabbit hole ever since.

My introduction to the world of SR was somewhat accidental. In the early days my introduction to new Japanese artists was typically through anime (and I'm still a huge fan of Yoko Kanno), but eventually you get enough artists and they start recommending each other. So it was with SR. I discovered her through her duet with Utada Hikaru (who I honestly don't care for that much anymore) on her Utaite Myouri album. I was searching for new Utada songs, came across that one, listened to it and wondered who this chick was that was totally putting Utada to shame. The first album of hers I got was Muzai Moratorium, the burned CD of which I used to listen to I recently wore out.

Anyway, after getting that one and Shouso Strip, I heard she had quit the solo business and started a band. I fell so in love with Kyouiku that I didn't get back into Shiina's pre-Jihen catalog until recently, and am currently attempting to digest KZK. It's pretty amazing, but I still listen to either Kyouiku or Adult at least once a week. Anyway, enough from me.

[zombiestrip]

Hi! I've been a lurker of this forum for quite some time now and decided only recently to join because this place is pretty awesome for finding news on all things SR/TJ. Lord knows I have trouble finding stuff about them so here I am.

As for how I discovered Ringo? Well, I used to message this girl from the Soompi forums (nothing suss here, honest!) and on her profile page, one of the artists she loved was Shiina Ringo. I was intrigued because I had heard of most of the major Japanese recording artists but not her. I decided to look for myself on YouTube one night and came across Ringo no Uta. It was okay, a lot different to what I normally hear out of Japan, but I needed more convincing. I saw the PV for Sounan after that and thought that the song was catchy as all hell. But it wasn't until I saw the live performance of Kabukichou no Joou from Dai Ikkai Ringohan Taikai no Moyou that I was absolutely convinced that this woman deserved my attention. From then on I pretty much went through her entire discography.

I love a lot of her stuff with Saito Neko (Sakuran is seriously just a fun song), like her stuff with Tokyo Jihen (though it's obvious that her talent is held back with the band, though they're still awesome) and my absolute favourite album from hers is Shouso Strip. I also love how Ringo doesn't just play one version of the same song over and over but always reinvents certain songs by giving it different arrangements. I think most of us can agree that the live arrangement for Tsumi to Batsu completely changes everything and makes it even more powerful than the original studio version.

What sucks is that I discovered her only a month after I came back from my exchange trip to Japan back in high school! I was so disappointed that I didn't discover her earlier and buy out her albums and DVDs.

I currently own Sports and Superficial Gossip as well as Just Can't Help It on DVD. I really need to get more from her but ordering things from overseas is too costly and the store I buy my things from don't stock up on her which is disappointing also.

Anyways, that's me and my adoration for Ringo!

[Glathannus]

Originally Posted by zombiestrip

I think most of us can agree that the live arrangement for Tsumi to Batsu completely changes everything and makes it even more powerful than the original studio version.

Which live version of Tsumi to Batsu are you talking about?
There's the Gekokujyo Xstasy version, the Electric Mole version, and then there's a small made-for-TV gig she did with Saito Neko where they turned it into a James Bond style. My favorite is on Electric Mole. I think that's one of the best examples of anything Tokyo Jihen has ever done. Nothing from Phase 2 in studio or in concert, lives up to the instrumentals at the end of that performance.

Originally Posted by zombiestrip

What sucks is that I discovered her only a month after I came back from my exchange trip to Japan back in high school! I was so disappointed that I didn't discover her earlier and buy out her albums and DVDs.
...
I really need to get more from her but ordering things from overseas is too costly and the store I buy my things from don't stock up on her which is disappointing also.

It's not anymore costly than buying the stuff while you're actually in Japan. I've got a shipment headed my way where the CDs are costing me slightly less than Japanese retail because I'm not paying the embedded sales tax for people within Japan, and beyond the discounted price, I'm paying hardly anything in shipping (the total comes out to be slightly more than Japanese retail). Why flinch at 200yen in shipping per disc, when an album would already cost you at least 3000yen in Japan? The only difference between buying while you're in Japan versus buying from home, is that if you're from a European or Commonwealth nation, the Customs charges will most certainly be painful. Legally you're probably supposed to pay that even if you were bringing goods back with you, but you could probably lie about how many of the discs were already yours, and how valuable the goods actually are.

[BlueApple]

I was thinking about this the other day so I thought I'd stick my story here.

Well, I was 15, and I was really just getting into Japanese music that was separate from anime and video games as well as experiencing the magic of downloading things from the internet. I came upon an MP3 rotation website (I can't remember the name for the life of me) one day and read through the descriptions of the songs available for download. I came upon a song titled Doppelganger by Shiina Ringo and the description was something along lines of how different the song was compared to most J-music so I thought "Hey, Why not?" I was definitely in for a surprise. I, like most people who hear Ringo for the first time I'm sure, thought that her voice was weird, but it grew on me quickly. I remember that night I ended up listening to the song on repeat on my iPod before I went to bed. So thus began my love for Shiina Ringo. On the same MP3 rotation, I downloaded Sounan not knowing that Tokyo Jihen basically equaled Shiina Ringo and enjoyed it thoroughly as well.

To be honest, my collection of Shiina Ringo's music was the slowest process ever due to the fact that A) I had dial up B) I was terrible with finding/downloading things on the internet and C) Youtube had just started the year I found Shiina Ringo. I didn't hear/aquire all of her music until about a year later.

Though in between that time, I also downloaded Stem (the single version) which I was obsessed with as well as Gunjou Biyori and Bokoku Jousho. I also met a Japanese girl at this summer program who was a Shiina Ringo fan and through her I borrowed her cds to listen to. She also let me watch the short movie that used music from KZK (Tanpen Kinema Hyaku-Iro Megane).

Also, this past year, I've been listening to Shiina Ringo and Tokyo Jihen a lot after the release of the Sports album because I had been out of the loop for a long time. It is really nice though; it's as if I am discovering her all over again.

[zombiestrip]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

Which live version of Tsumi to Batsu are you talking about?
There's the Gekokujyo Xstasy version, the Electric Mole version, and then there's a small made-for-TV gig she did with Saito Neko where they turned it into a James Bond style. My favorite is on Electric Mole. I think that's one of the best examples of anything Tokyo Jihen has ever done. Nothing from Phase 2 in studio or in concert, lives up to the instrumentals at the end of that performance.

The one that I'm referring to is the made-for-TV one she did with Saito Neko which was used again for Ringo EXPO. The vocals were so powerful and overwhelming. I haven't seen the other versions so I can only compare to the studio version. It didn't sound like a James Bond track athough I can see why you'd think that, haha. Again, I just really liked her stuff with Saito Neko.

Originally Posted by Glathannus

It's not anymore costly than buying the stuff while you're actually in Japan. I've got a shipment headed my way where the CDs are costing me slightly less than Japanese retail because I'm not paying the embedded sales tax for people within Japan, and beyond the discounted price, I'm paying hardly anything in shipping (the total comes out to be slightly more than Japanese retail). Why flinch at 200yen in shipping per disc, when an album would already cost you at least 3000yen in Japan? The only difference between buying while you're in Japan versus buying from home, is that if you're from a European or Commonwealth nation, the Customs charges will most certainly be painful. Legally you're probably supposed to pay that even if you were bringing goods back with you, but you could probably lie about how many of the discs were already yours, and how valuable the goods actually are.

Where do you order your CDs from? YesAsia? HMV Japan? Also, I live in Australia so as you said, the customs charges might be a bit much for me. Also, the only reason why I would've bought it while I was in Japan as opposed to shipping it from overseas is becuase it would've just been convenient since I was there. I would've gotten it straight away as opposed to waiting for it to come in the mail. I could pay for express delivery but that also costs a lot more, making the retail price of an album or DVD a lot higher than it normally would be.

[Glathannus]

I normally don't use YesAsia for Japanese CDs/DVDs, but they're still a handy (and reasonably-priced) source of Chinese and Korean discs.

CD Japan (also known as Neo-Wing to Japanese customers) is where I prefer to get my Japanese CDs (and some of my DVDs) from, since they let customers assuredly get first-press on a first-come first-serve basis at no additional cost, and you know which pressing you're getting before you even commit to placing your order. CD Japan was already fairly awesome to begin with, but they have still managed to improve over the years by eventually offering PayPal and FedEx. The surprising thing about the FedEx delivery option, is that it's actually cheaper than Air Mail or EMS with the larger shipments, but it's still fast and trackable and insured. So.. the fastest shipping is not necessarily the most expensive.* 200yen per disc is a lot better than what I used to pay before FedEx became an option, and unfortunately we're still stuck with EMS as the only international shipping option whenever we might be trying to 'save' money with HMV Japan's lowest DVD prices.

Sometimes I've been disappointed by how HMV Japan packages their shipment, or how they have occasionally wanted to charge me more than the original shipping estimate - but I can't say I've ever been disappointed by a CD Japan shipment. They're fast, they take their packaging very seriously, and they often throw in bonus goodies (stickers/posters/etc) associated with the CD/DVD releases - which I almost never receive from HMV Japan. Sometimes I place a large order, then some more releases are announced to be available for pre-order, which I also want in the same shipment. With CD Japan I can just add as much as I want to a not-yet-departed shipment so long as I don't set the shipment back beyond 60 days of when it was originally supposed to go out - while with HMV they want me to place separate orders (which wouldn't have a consolidated shipping cost), or cancel my existing order (which relinquishes my hold over any sold-out items) and try to recreate that order with the additional item.

There have been times where I pre-ordered a batch of upcoming releases - the latest of which would be released 2 months after I had placed that order. As the weeks went by, more releases available for pre-order would be announced, and I would add them into the not-yet-departed batch. This batch would end up stretching out to literally 4 months (due to later pre-order dates being tacked onto the order) before it would finally be time for CD Japan to ship it out, and all-the-while CD Japan would be physically-reserving items for me as each of those items were entering their warehouse. Some of these releases would become out-of-print and sold-out a month or two before it was time to ship out. Meanwhile CD Japan would be telling later-inquiring customers the item is completely gone and unavailable.

Now don't get me wrong - while CD Japan might be my obvious favorite, I still use HMV Japan a lot (sometimes I have no other choice if something I want is already sold-out at CD Japan), but the shipping is never as cheap as 200yen per disc, it's never as fast as CD Japan, the packaging is never as good, and I almost never get any release-related goodies. Although HMV Japan is now more recently a one-nation entity (separate from the rest of HMV), it is still a profit-driven mega corporation with less emphasis on customer satisfaction - compared to a specialty store like CD Japan. You have to know ahead of time that this is what you are getting yourself into, that way you aren't surprised when they dishonor your order somehow.

CD Japan seriously has the most awesome customer service I've experienced from any e-tailer based in Asia - and it even rivals the best of the western-world customer service I've experienced online. One time my credit card got stolen shortly before one of my pre-orders was about to ship out. So the card got auto-canceled, and I had to tell CD Japan they couldn't charge this card that we already arranged to have them charge later on. It took them almost a day to respond (the only bad thing about their service), but they responded in decent English from a Japanese woman (maybe the delay is because they don't have many translators). By the time she got back to me, the shipment was already going out. And she told me, it's okay - they would ship the 40000yen worth of stuff out to me anyway, and I would LATER pay them with a replacement credit card I didn't even have yet. They completely honored my big pre-order, because I had a great relationship with them from all the business I had done with them before. Meanwhile, a bunch of these latest goods were in fact already sold-out by the time this batch shipment was going out.

HMV Japan would never do anything like that. They would threaten to cancel a 50000yen shipment because it was going to cost 500yen more than previously estimated, and when I tried to get back to them about that, their English translators were so logjammed that they canceled my whole order (even though I agreed to pay the 500yen increase) and they broke my reservation before someone finally responded to me (a week after I tried to reach them about this). I'm not fucking kidding about that. HMV Japan had to update their Orders interface to prevent miscommunication from causing anymore canceled orders. But the fact is, they WILL occasionally demand more money even if it's only 1% beyond the original estimate, and they WILL cancel your order if you don't give them the exact amount of money they now want. This is so rampant that they eventually introduced an option for you to give them carte blanche whenever you place an order. How can anyone seriously trust a company which does business like that? I'd tell them No, Fuck YOU, everytime they tried to ask me for more money on the shipment - but I don't quite have the spine to tell them No when they're holding sold-out goods for me. By then, HMV Japan has already got me by the balls, because it's too late for me to go elsewhere for the same items when all the other major vendors are already sold-out, too.

So I've learned a couple of very important things from the repeat offenses. First of all, you should try to narrow the scope of your HMV Japan orders to items of unlimited availability (you're giving them too much leverage to mess with the cost if you try to buy limited edition goods) - especially any items they already have in-stock, because the shipping estimates on those will never be wrong (it's the pre-order shipping estimates that they often get wrong). Secondly, since you shouldn't expect the shipping to be cheap relative to the amount of discs you buy (not even on larger shipments), you ought to be on the lookout for cheap DVDs to take some of the sting off of the unavoidably-high shipping cost. HMV Japan's selection of cheap Japanese DVDs is huge, so it tends to balance out if your shipment consists mainly of DVDs.

*: EMF members from Commonwealth nations, have testified that they're more likely to get charged customs with better shipping, because the full value of those shipments is insured, and apparently the Customs officials pay more attention to the insurance information than the generic information about declared contents. For this reason, Commonwealth folk (when they aren't trying to secure a first-press copy of anything) have developed a preference toward YesAsia due to the uninsured and nondescript nature of the shipping.

[a_grumble_cake]

welcome welcome!

Originally Posted by BlueApple

On the same MP3 rotation, I downloaded Sounan not knowing that Tokyo Jihen basically equaled Shiina Ringo and enjoyed it thoroughly as well.

at first I thought it's funny that you didn't recognize her voice but then I realized... she sounds very different in those two songs! It seems to be something she can control. I remember that in the demos she sang a few songs in a very cutesy voice like idols would sing... thank god she stopped that.

[zombiestrip]

@Glathannus: Wow! That was a lot of information to take in but thanks! It's very useful to me though I can't help but feel like as if you're a spokesperson for CD Japan, hahaha. I'll defnitely give CD Japan a go once I figure out what exactly I want to order from there. Again, thanks for all that information!

[Glathannus]

Originally Posted by BlueApple

This past year, I've been listening to Shiina Ringo and Tokyo Jihen a lot after the release of the Sports album
...
It is really nice though; it's as if I am discovering her all over again.

I went for over a year without listening to Kyoiku. Once I finally revisited it, I realized I should have been remembering a lot more about Kyoiku than just how badly-recorded it was. I've also taken long breaks from Shouso Strip - before the MoRA remasters came out, anyway. It is almost like rediscovering Shiina Ringo, which is always nice.

Originally Posted by zombiestrip

I'll defnitely give CD Japan a go once I figure out what exactly I want to order from there.

You might want to limit your CD Japan transactions to upcoming (mainly first-press) releases. If you are trying to catch up on older stuff, your fellow Commonwealth mates would argue you'd be better off with YesAsia, and in your case (with how bad the Customs are on the insured shipments you'd normally get from CD Japan or HMV Japan) they would be right. If you ever felt like moving to the States (where we never get charged Customs on Japanese media), then yeah, I would say you should use CD Japan for pretty much everything. But I think there are more Americans moving to Australia, than vice versa.