Ringo Shiina project I'm trying to start

[oasis_heart3]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

I also still think it's evil to mess with lyrics, let alone put an emphasis on them.

But lyrics are a vital part of vocal songs...especially for "serious" artists like Ringo Shiina. I know I get tired of hearing the same type of R&B and rap songs on US airwaves, and I hate/know that they're only on the air because people ONLY listen to the music. And as a result, the lyrics are dumb and/or offensive as hell...and I understand why. I mean, why put any effort in the lyrics when the beat is what matters most? So when I hear VOCAL songs -- songs where people actually sing and have lyrics -- I listen for good music AND good lyrics. They have to go hand and hand for me, and probably several other people as well.

If people can remix or redo a song's music, and that gets accepted okay, then WHY is it so wrong to remix or redo the lyrics a little? And that said, I really don't see what the big fuss is, especially since I'm not really changing the lyrics that much -- I kept most of the words and the overall message intact. I wrote the lyrics in the first place because I wondered what it would sound like if the songs were in English.

So yeah...I get upset when people shoot down projects (or more specifically, lyrics) like what I'm doing...and what upsets me more is, if the original artist does the same thing, people hardly say anything. I didn't hear too many complaints when Ringo made "La Salle de Bain", or "Stem", or even the TAMEIKESANNOH version of "Karisome Otome".

And while we're on the subject...k3nj1kun, the word "personify" (from the "Ringo no Uta" lyrics I wrote) sounds just fine when it's sung. I've practiced it myself -- I ALWAYS recite what I write down to make certain it sounds okay. So maybe it sounds "wrong" to you because your accent is getting in the way, or your rhythm doesn't match mine entirely? I'll happily post a demo so you can hear how it's supposed to sound. =)

If you wanna talk about things being wrong with lyrics, then how about when Ringo mis-sung "nook" as "nuke" in "Papaya Mango"...or how the rhythm is slightly rushed and awkward in part of "Karisome Otome -TEMIKESANNOH ver."? In fact, a lot of her English cover lyrics really aren't "super pretty" when she sings it in English...or rather, at first glimpse you wouldn't think that it would work with the songs, but she somehow finds a way. I'm at least trying to make the songs fit the US lyric mold (ie: the song rhymes well, and flows well nearly 100% of the time, etc.), but people keep disliking me for it. I just don't understand why I'm scrutinized when Ringo does the same thing or worse.

Now don't get me wrong; I love Ringo dearly (and the "Papaya Mango" thing was probably just a mistake, and we all make them)...but it's not fair how you and others keep criticising English cover lyrics, despite what the original artist has done with English covers herself.

[justriiingo]

^ That's the reason why I listen to foreign language songs, and why I don't exactly enjoying hearing SR sing in English. I don't usually care about lyrics, and since your project is mainly lyrics based (since you're the head honcho), I'm not interested even though I could be of help (piano and "ear-copying").

It's unfortunate that your project is off to a rocky start, but maybe you might want to take in all this and reformulate your plan.

[Glathannus]

Originally Posted by oasis_heart3

But lyrics are a vital part of vocal songs...especially for "serious" artists like Ringo Shiina. I know I get tired of hearing the same type of R&B and rap songs on US airwaves, and I hate/know that they're only on the air because people ONLY listen to the music. And as a result, the lyrics are dumb and/or offensive as hell...and I understand why. I mean, why put any effort in the lyrics when the beat is what matters most? So when I hear VOCAL songs -- songs where people actually sing and have lyrics -- I listen for good music AND good lyrics. They have to go hand and hand for me, and probably several other people as well.

If people can remix or redo a song's music, and that gets accepted okay, then WHY is it so wrong to remix or redo the lyrics a little? And that said, I really don't see what the big fuss is, especially since I'm not really changing the lyrics that much -- I kept most of the words and the overall message intact. I wrote the lyrics in the first place because I wondered what it would sound like if the songs were in English.

So yeah...I get upset when people shoot down projects (or more specifically, lyrics) like what I'm doing...and what upsets me more is, if the original artist does the same thing, people hardly say anything. I didn't hear too many complaints when Ringo made "La Salle de Bain", or "Stem", or even the TAMEIKESANNOH version of "Karisome Otome".

And while we're on the subject...k3nj1kun, the word "personify" (from the "Ringo no Uta" lyrics I wrote) sounds just fine when it's sung. I've practiced it myself -- I ALWAYS recite what I write down to make certain it sounds okay. So maybe it sounds "wrong" to you because your accent is getting in the way, or your rhythm doesn't match mine entirely? I'll happily post a demo so you can hear how it's supposed to sound. =)

If you wanna talk about things being wrong with lyrics, then how about when Ringo mis-sung "nook" as "nuke" in "Papaya Mango"...or how the rhythm is slightly rushed and awkward in part of "Karisome Otome -TEMIKESANNOH ver."? In fact, a lot of her English cover lyrics really aren't "super pretty" when she sings it in English...or rather, at first glimpse you wouldn't think that it would work with the songs, but she somehow finds a way. I'm at least trying to make the songs fit the US lyric mold (ie: the song rhymes well, and flows well nearly 100% of the time, etc.), but people keep disliking me for it. I just don't understand why I'm scrutinized when Ringo does the same thing or worse.

Now don't get me wrong; I love Ringo dearly (and the "Papaya Mango" thing was probably just a mistake, and we all make them)...but it's not fair how you and others keep criticising English cover lyrics, despite what the original artist has done with English covers herself.

Your example of R&B popularity doesn't really work, because that's emphasis on rhythm, and a melody that's so bloated out that if you boiled it down to its core elements, most of it isn't unique.

You raise some valid points, however, I actually have been a critic of La Salle de Bain, and the second half of HF Yokushitsu (unless you're talking about the instrumental track available on e-Onkyo). I don't even pay attention to the words themselves, but the flow sounds so... awkward.

I didn't think the flow was as much of a problem with KSK-LP/CasshernSoundtrack version of Kuki. I love the changing emotions of her voice and I'm not reading those emotions from an understanding of the English - the words themselves just go through one of my ears and out the other. In that kind of focus, I really do think the emotion of the voice itself, is more epic with the English than with the Japanese, at least as far as CD/LP releases go. The Electric Mole vocal performance of Kuki (in Japanese) is strong competition.

I focus purely on the melody and the personality of the voice itself. When you get some other vocalist covering Shiina Ringo, it's going to be like Ben Afleck starring as Daredevil. Even if the dialog is the same, you're going to get their personality in-place of Ringo. That's my biggest problem with your idea. It's not that I think "only the artists themselves should mess with their own lyrics", because that's been rather hit & miss with me when it comes to Ringo translating herself. When you hire another vocalist, the question shouldn't be "Is the vocalist GOOD?", but more specifically "Is the vocalist THE RIGHT FIT?". Realistically they won't come even close. Not unless you get different vocalists to cover different songs, and even then, you should only be pursuing the songs that have one tone or one attitude - one for each vocalist.

If I were going to get a different voice or lyrics (and this is a big IF), I'd be primarily interested in Gaelic (something she hasn't done before - but it flows so beautifully). I don't have the connections or the expertise to pull that off. I think in any other single language where Ringo sonically can exhibit her full range of emotions, you're going to more easily notice how much is missing when you replace Ringo with another vocalist. Gaelic would be perfect, although that's straying from the feisty personality I fell in love with musically.

[Jonny]

So what I recommend is, if you really want quality texts, you better find a Japanese person. The alternative is Japedish...

[k3nj1kun]

Originally Posted by oasis_heart3

But lyrics are a vital part of vocal songs...especially for "serious" artists like Ringo Shiina. I know I get tired of hearing the same type of R&B and rap songs on US airwaves, and I hate/know that they're only on the air because people ONLY listen to the music. And as a result, the lyrics are dumb and/or offensive as hell...and I understand why. I mean, why put any effort in the lyrics when the beat is what matters most? So when I hear VOCAL songs -- songs where people actually sing and have lyrics -- I listen for good music AND good lyrics. They have to go hand and hand for me, and probably several other people as well.

If people can remix or redo a song's music, and that gets accepted okay, then WHY is it so wrong to remix or redo the lyrics a little? And that said, I really don't see what the big fuss is, especially since I'm not really changing the lyrics that much -- I kept most of the words and the overall message intact. I wrote the lyrics in the first place because I wondered what it would sound like if the songs were in English.

So yeah...I get upset when people shoot down projects (or more specifically, lyrics) like what I'm doing...and what upsets me more is, if the original artist does the same thing, people hardly say anything. I didn't hear too many complaints when Ringo made "La Salle de Bain", or "Stem", or even the TAMEIKESANNOH version of "Karisome Otome".

And while we're on the subject...k3nj1kun, the word "personify" (from the "Ringo no Uta" lyrics I wrote) sounds just fine when it's sung. I've practiced it myself -- I ALWAYS recite what I write down to make certain it sounds okay. So maybe it sounds "wrong" to you because your accent is getting in the way, or your rhythm doesn't match mine entirely? I'll happily post a demo so you can hear how it's supposed to sound. =)

If you wanna talk about things being wrong with lyrics, then how about when Ringo mis-sung "nook" as "nuke" in "Papaya Mango"...or how the rhythm is slightly rushed and awkward in part of "Karisome Otome -TEMIKESANNOH ver."? In fact, a lot of her English cover lyrics really aren't "super pretty" when she sings it in English...or rather, at first glimpse you wouldn't think that it would work with the songs, but she somehow finds a way. I'm at least trying to make the songs fit the US lyric mold (ie: the song rhymes well, and flows well nearly 100% of the time, etc.), but people keep disliking me for it. I just don't understand why I'm scrutinized when Ringo does the same thing or worse.

Now don't get me wrong; I love Ringo dearly (and the "Papaya Mango" thing was probably just a mistake, and we all make them)...but it's not fair how you and others keep criticising English cover lyrics, despite what the original artist has done with English covers herself.

her songs in english aren't good... u see what i mean?
and you want to make her songs, from japanese > into english..
papaya mango.. is sung in french? then english? i dont remember..
but come on... she's not a fluent english speaker.. and her english songs.. aren't the best! if you want to put it that way!

an artist that remixes their own stuff.. and release it on their own cds... what's wrong with that?

also.. that karisome otome.. if you know anything about free-jazz.. you'd realise that aesthetic is quite suitable.

so hurry and post your demo! i'd like to hear.. this project can come out really well!

@Glathannus
ive met a lot of people that are so better than mr neko! so there!@
haha im joking.. i meet a lot of people from the sydney symph and soloists from around the world that come into uni to give out free master classes...

[oasis_heart3]

Originally Posted by k3nj1kun

so hurry and post your demo! i'd like to hear.. this project can come out really well!

Not sure if that's sarcastic (based on the rest of that post you made. >.>), but I promised to do it so here you go:

Oasis Heart3 - Ringo no Uta [English Cover]

(please note: the only way I know how to make "decent karaoke" is to use Vocal Remover in GoldWave, and to reduce the volume a bit [so that whatever leftover vocals are there, they don't interfere with my voice too much. Also, I'm not the greatest singer in the world, so I take no resposibility if your ears hurt. xD)


Moving on...I've done a lot of thinking, based on everything that's been said here. The harsh comments did hurt (and still do to an extent), but they've really helped me grow -- and after talking with a few friends (who are my support group ^^), I've realized that I not only need to apologize, but I need to explain something else.

So, I want apologize to everyone at Electric Mole. I'm pretty sure the main reason for the tension is that I wasn't as "to the point" as I should've been. I didn't explain the things that should have been explained; I just assumed everyone would understand.

But I should've told you up front exactly what I had planned for this project.

For starters, I NEVER mentioned the word "professional". If you check the first post, you won't even see it there. But the truth is, one day -- when my resources are better, I'll try and find a band, and get more professional equipment. (my resources = mostly money; my true passion in life is writing with words, so music writing is waaaay out of my league, and I feel like the few melodies I do come up with are bland or a total rip-off of someone else's work...and I know if you want some high quality work done, then you'll either need to learn it yourself, OR hire someone to do it for you...unless of course, there's that rare instance where someone volunteers their service to you.)

But until my resources are better, I wanted to do this project as decent as possible (BTW: I know you read that whole "resources" thing, so you already know that doing music isn't my thing. So...my job in this project would be, aside from writing the lyrics, building the website, storing MP3s, creating sample MP3s, and offering assistance to the rest of the team in ANY way they needed. Since they'd be doing most of the technical stuff, the least I can do is handle everything else -- and help them when they needed it, right?)

When I thought of this cover project (and when I used the word "decent"), I assumed (and yeah, I know "assuming" is a bad thing to do) that it would probably end up being like The Way to Say, or other cover projects I've seen on SoundClick. In other words, I assumed that "since I don't have much money -- but I still want this to be done -- that I would have a project that's not super high quality, but it's decent and still fun".

...But I also figured that, if the project was good and our hard work really showed, then it might open up some doors (I doubt doors like "Avex wants to sign us" or "Ringo Shiina is interested and wants to help" would open...but some doors could open, and people might be willing to offer help, either for free or at a decent price or something). So in that way, with more doors open, I could get the professional project started a lot easier.

So, when I posted for help here, I just assumed that everyone would automatically understand "if she doesn't mention money, then she must want a simple cover project, like the one The Way to Say has". I assumed those projects were so common that I wouldn't even need to explain what I wanted.

But I see that I actually confused a lot of people (so I should have mentioned that I want a simple project now -- and once my money improves, then I'll do something more professional)...and not only that, but I never dreamed that there would be actual professional musicians here. I dunno; I guess I just thought people like Glathannus were too busy with projects to visit forums and such.

So I never expected to hear people in this forum to say that they made music for a living...and a LOT of the responses I got seemed to be from professional people. So...when you add the fact that I NEVER said exactly what my goals were (which again, is for a simple project now, and something more professional at a later time), and the fact that a lot of pro's are here (and I never mentioned money)...then of course it sounds like I'm whining and saying, "I don't know anything about music, but I want you professional people to do something for me, for FREE, because I am a cheap, greedy bastard." But that's not how I am at all; I'm the complete opposite of that.

I'm really sorry for the confusion, and for offending and upsetting people. And I'm glad that you all did call me out on my mistakes, because I know that when I go to other forums (and when I start other projects, some of which aren't related to music) that I will have to be up front with my plans and explain everything. And I'm also going to read through a lot more "old posts" on the forums, so I can try to understand the "tone" of the forum and exactly who comes here (a lot of professional people, or mostly amateurs, etc). If I did that -- along with explaining things up front -- these misunderstandings might have never come up.

Again, I'm sorry for the problems, and I hope at least one person can forgive me.

[k3nj1kun]

i listened to the track
some lyrics didn't match.. but who cares aye?

just work on getting good mics
and the quality
post ur demos out so people who understand music can direct a little bit and take it in
and as long as you
dont sell your stuff
..i think you'll be fine

[oasis_heart3]

Well, taking in what you just said (about letting people who understand music direct things a little bit), what did you think didn't match in the song?

I'm not sure if this affected things or not, but I tend to slur my words together. ( ^^; ) I tried my best to enunciate everything, but I still made some mistakes (which means I'll definitely do a higher quality version sometime this week).

But anyway...let me know what you thought was awkward in the song, and I'll happily look it over. ^^

[newyorkjihen]

Hi.

Wow.

Ok.

I cannot help with this project.

But I am very interested in a project of my own, I wonder if someone could help me out. I want to make some unauthorized Shiina Ringo remixes. (I don't plan on releasing them, or at least not professionally/for money) Do any Shiina Ringo acapella tracks exist? I've seen a ton of these for hip hop, also instrumentals. Shiina Ringo instrumentals would be cool too, but I'm more interested in the vocals separated out. Does this sort of thing exist? For Shiina Ringo, or any jpop artist for that matter?

EDIT:
(Electronic music, mainly Reason 3.0)

[makenshiww]

this project sounds awesome and i would really love to help. I think i can pull of the vocals, but hence the sadness , I am a guy , so too bad =T