2011-2012 Jihen Releases & Tour Discussion

[W3iHong]

How I saw this thread.

>implying
>implying implication
>implying about implication that has been implied
>"OH NO YOU DIDN'T", said the stereotypical sassy black woman voice
>argument end
>comments about the argument
>implying
>implying implication
>implying about implication that has been implied
>???
>PROFIT!!!

[Maou]

I feel like I'm on trial and need to explain myself.

As I said, KSK is overrated because of the arrangement. The fact that she used a billion instruments on the album blinds some. It leads to statements such as:

the arrangements show a musical depth and complexity that hasn't been reproduced in Shiina's work.

Which is ridiculous. Songs such as Tadashii Machi, Onaji Yoru, Yokushitsu, Yami ni Furu Ame, Sakana, Izonshou, and Aozora among others showcase the same depth and musical complexity as the songs on KSK. Unfortunately, they don't get their proper due because their roots are in pop/alt rock instead of pretentious avant-garde or orchestrated music.

Never once did I say re-arranging a song makes the original less memorable and never once did I say Meisai lacked musical complexity. I laughed at Meisei being used as an example of the musical complexity that only KSK could deliver because it and Odaijini are the two songs from KSK that still easily fit on SS. Replace Sakana with Meisai and you don't skip a beat.

[Maou]

I know the mods hate double posts, but...

To get back on the topic of the Discovery tour: It was bland. Maybe it was just an off night, but they didn't bring it like they did with Ultra C. The energy levels weren't their. The show musically was just like a normal Adult or Variety tour show. I thought maybe they turned the corner with Ultra C, but this was right back to square one.

If you didn't like the single version of Carnation, I can't imagine you liking the Discovery version. It has a band arrangement, but the attitude is the same. It still lacks the energy, build up and excitement that the original was criticized for lacking.

[Carlx]

Originally Posted by Maou

Replace Sakana

Don't you ever dare.

[Maou]

Originally Posted by Carlx

Don't you ever dare.

Haha, all I'm saying is that Meisai wouldn't feel out of place on SS and Sakana wouldn't feel out of place on KSK. Great songs man.

[TurtleFu]

This is the part in the discussions where I realize we have actually been agreeing the whole time. This usually happens because I don't fully understand what the other person is actually arguing.

About Sakana, Izonshou, Yami ni Furu Ame, Yokushitsu, Onaji Yoru, and Aozora, I agree completely. I guess I wasn't really thinking when I wrote that.

[sylfi]

And could we just get rid of the term JPop? It's not descriptive, and it's not even a genre. It's just grouping all Japanese music into one category when there are distinctly different genres present. Shiina is rock, AKB48 is idol pop, Utada is electronic, Ayu is pop-rock (for the most part), Namie Amuro is hip-hop/R&B/pop/whatever, and so on.

As for the actual tour itself, what Maou said is disappointing. I've been watching Ringo Expo for awhile now, and I'm going to eventually watch DO, but I kinda wanted to see a new tour from them that was amazing, especially considering how much I loved Dai-hakken.

[deadgrandma]

MM, SS, KSK and SG all get deadgrandma ticks.

They're all just as good as each other, cept SG which I like a tiny bit better because I play that a lot more, when I get up, when I drive the car, during sex (Shun go go go) plus you know, it's my favourite face of Ringo, which is probably why I'm the only one who thinks Onna Ka Wa Daredemo is the best on Daihakken. Or maybe I'm just turning into a (I got told off for using the word I wanted to use before)

I can kinda sorta understand Maous dilemna with KSK, but... the whole 'overrated' thing is pretty unimportant when albums like "OK Computer" and "Master of Puppets" exist. These I cannot understand personally. They're both good, but "OK Computer" sounds like weaker "The Bends" and "Master of Puppets" is outdone infinitely by "...And Justice For All". But you know, each to their goddamn own. Maybe it's from general 'historical' in the history of music thing that dictates KSK too.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing on KSK being overrated, cause I don't think its any better or worse than the first two albums. I can however, understand why outsiders would be attracted to KSK more, the first 2 are very similar to in alt rock in the west, KSK sounds* unique (at least at first) and gives a motivation to pursue it further if you have no interest in Japanese music at all.

*emphasis on the sounds like

My intentions for this will probably get lost because again I'm having hard time putting it into words. It's by no means an attack on the first 2 Ringo releases, I enjoy them as much as any other fan.

[gekokujyo]

I think the problem lies in the fact that some people here have difficulty appreciating how the marketing/image aspects of an artist has an inextricable relationship with the music itself. So, while I don't think Shiina Ringo and Morning Musume necessarily sound the same, I think they still fall within the same genre of music. I don't get why that's such a dirty comparison to make, anyway; at their peak MM made some of the best pop music ever. Anyhow, this isn't something that is going to be resolved just by me explaining it like this (especially if there is immense resistance/stubbornness against accepting a point of view that is different from theirs), so I guess, yes, it's not a very productive discussion.

[Nimh]

Originally Posted by gekokujyo

productive discussion.

I'm trying to think when there's ever been "productive discussion" on a site like this. By that I mean, when has someone's views completely changed and evolved by virtue of an online forum exchange?

I almost feel like starting a "testimonial" thread: How has Electric Mole Forums altered your opinions and made you grateful for it?