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Old 2014.11.20, 05:07 PM   #21
deadgrandma
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Her most nationalistic album also sounds the most western. Go figure.
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Old 2014.11.20, 05:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
Her most nationalistic album also sounds the most western. Go figure.
Go on about how this sounds "Western". To me, sounds just like Ringo.
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Old 2014.11.20, 05:18 PM   #23
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KZK is the Ringo album that to me sounds Japanese, I don't believe you would find anything quite the same from anywhere else. This sounds like pop rock/jazz rock from anywhere. Except for Iroha. Even the majority of Utaite Myori would have floated better with Land of the Rising Sun title. Hell, even Hesei Fuzoku seems more convincing when it comes to that theme.

Why make a big fuss about it being about NIPPON when you aren't gonna make it sound like its Japanese influenced? Seems such a wasted opportunity. I take it comes down to no other ideas were flowing at the current time?

I'm done with Jihen scraps. WHERES MY NOH ALBUM.

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Now music like THAT would make an awesome "LAND OF THE RISING FUCKIN' SUN" album. I know she's still got it in her somewhere.

All I can do is hope and hope for the seperate audio from this to appear somewhere, sometime.

If she's gonna make another Sunny like album, it better be called BAKA
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Old 2014.11.20, 06:01 PM   #24
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I don't know what might signal the fact that this is an album that might be 'Japanese'. Maybe the fact that she is Japanese, and is singing in Japanese, and making references to specific contemporary Japanese cultural motifs?

I really don't think one has to break out the shamisen in order to make an album about Japan. That's actually borderline orientalistic/offence. I really think one needs to move beyond a kimono-donning idea of what Japan in 2014 entails.

But to be clear, we are shifting the discussion beyond "do you enjoy the album or not?" to "can we claim SUNNY is an album about Japan/nationalism?" So comments about preference/appeal of style are at best tangential, yes?

So let's talk about style SUITABILITY (for an album that is ostensibly "Japan-themed") - If we are going to reductive and say flutes = western! brass = western! GUITAR! = western! Then sure, this is her most 'western' album yet. (except, y'know, fucking "marunouchi sadistic" already did the whole swing schtick back in 1999)

But I really challenge anyone to name one 'western' song that compositionally even remotely resembles Chichinpui or Hashire wa number or even NIPPON for that matter. I can't.
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Old 2014.11.20, 06:03 PM   #25
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Gekokujyo, are you Japanese/can you read Japanese? You've made some insights lately that have led me to believe that you've done textual analysis of Ringo's lyrics (something I am currently doing), and it's something that I think this forum needs more of.

But OK, back to NIPPON.

When I was talking about kimono, I wasn't being reductive and saying kimono = Japanese, everything else = Western.
But even in Japan the kimono has a particular meaning and place in society. The fact that it is not everyday wear is important. Heritage is constructed, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not real. When Shiina wears a kimono she is making a statement, in some way. Ultimately, things like kimono and shamisen and kotos ARE symbols of nationalism, yet they aren't the only symbols of nationalism.

Shiina is an incredibly Japanese musician, but that doesn't make her a nationalistic one. That might be me arguing semantics (or just me being American), but nationalism to me implies a certain lack of critical lens towards one's own country. And Shiina is plenty critical of Japan.

And obviously, like, my whole paper about Shibuya-kei is that it's a Japanese music genre where none of the individual ingredients are Japanese. Likewise, Shiina is a Japanese songwriter whether the song has a koto or not.

Like I said, previously, I have a hard time Sunny is an album about ANYTHING, really. The individual songs might have meaning, but does the album as a whole have meaning? I mean, if you juxtapose an inherently nationalistic song like NIPPON with an incredibly critical song like Ariamaru Tomi, what exactly are you saying?

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Old 2014.11.20, 06:16 PM   #26
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You don't really need to have a super in-depth understanding of Japanese to know that she's singing about Japanese 'things' with overt references to NIPPON and Chichinpui and TSUTAYA.

But to further comment, and why I think ideologically I think this is a stronger album than SG. I think it would be clearer if I explained in terms of why I think Ariamaru tomi absolutely belongs on this album than any other of SR's stuff. Because it is a song that advocates self-sufficiency and contentment in the absence of wealth and other transient material possessions. And consumerist culture is one of the biggest 'themes' associated with Japan in popular discourse and academia. We are talking about a nation that defines itself by the things they BUY and CONSUME, and here we have a pop star who's singing a simple message about how to be happy without all these things - for me it is simultaneously optimistic and deliciously ironic!

And I think she's being very reflexive with her work! Which is why the cover itself, with the appropriation of the "American" Marilyn-do, against the rising sun, against the ukiyo-e, in an album that wails about the SUN SHINING BRIGHT ON OUR NATIVE LAND - it's proud, but also self-critical about Japan's relationship with "the west" or "pop" or whatever you wanna call it.

(but I guess for some people, when it comes down to it, I'll accept if you don't like the way the album -sounds- everything else becomes inconsequential. I'm of the camp who really loves the sound of the album, and all of this contextual knowledge really adds a lot more depth and richness and just sheer INTEREST level for me)

EDIT:

@Turtle: I think I'm generally in agreement with you wrt how SR views Japan, and how "Japanese" she is, but to me, being critical isn't mutually exclusive from being nationalistic. Atarashii bunmei kaika is for me perhaps the first time she was explicit about it. Before that, even on KSK, she's been pretty coy about it.

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Old 2014.11.20, 06:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by TurtleFu View Post
I mean, if you juxtapose an inherently nationalistic song like NIPPON with an incredibly critical song like Ariamaru Tomi, what exactly are you saying?
That you couldn't write a better album closer

And I honestly don't think it's anything deeper than that. Sounds harsh but do you seriously think it could be anything else?
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Old 2014.11.20, 06:23 PM   #28
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Hello, guys! We are trying to have an intellectual discussion about what is essentially a POP MUSIC ALBUM! Whether you liked the album or not, this in itself should speak volumes about whether she's still got it.
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Old 2014.11.20, 08:51 PM   #29
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Considering that Japanese people have been looking up to the western world since Meiji restoration, it would be ridiculous to suggest that Ringo must make an album full of enka songs, exploring themes like samurais, ninjas, sumo fighters, geishas and sushi, using traditional instruments like koto, and wearing kimono all the time in order to give an impression that she is proud to be Japanese.

KZK sounds Japanese? I dunno, the tea cup is definitely Japanese, but the music sounds like MM/SS songs orchestrated to resemble movie soundtracks. The opening song on Sunny contains more enka singing than all KZK songs combined.

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Old 2014.11.21, 12:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TurtleFu View Post
Gekokujyo, are you Japanese/can you read Japanese? You've made some insights lately that have led me to believe that you've done textual analysis of Ringo's lyrics (something I am currently doing), and it's something that I think this forum needs more of.
I can't speak for Gekokujyo, but all I've read said about SR's lyrics lately could have been based on reading translations of them. I recommend Frecklegirl's website, she's very thorough and often includes very helpful translation/cultural notes. At one point, she'd translated all of SR's lyrics, and is *supposedly* in the process of re-translating them after having had them removed. :\
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