Kyouiku vs Adult vs Sanmon Gossip

[TurtleFu]

Moving on from the Togatta Teguchi discussion.

I disagree with Jihad. I don't think it's that Ringo is trying to make more commercial music, I think it's that she is just not trying as hard.
The type of musical experimentation in Shouso Strip and Kalk Zamen Kuri no Hana could really only come from someone who is young, with a lot to prove. As she got older, she had a kid, her priorities got re-arranged. She says the recording process for KZK was exhausting. What's the point anymore?
Utada once mentioned that after creating her album Heart Station (which she says had a difficult arrangement process), she wanted to create something mainstream and simple as a pallet-cleanser. Making "difficult" music IS difficult, and I just don't think Ringo thinks it is necessary to make the effort anymore.
She doesn't really owe us anything, and the way she talks about the recording of KZK makes it seem like it was very unenjoyable for her.

SG being mainstream: It both is and it isn't. The individual songs themselves don't really experiment (other than a couple, Bonsai Hada being one of them). They play their genres straight. And each song has mainstream appeal (other than Bonsai Hada). But the fact that you take so many disparate songs together and just throw them into one package makes the album almost impenetrable and unpredictable. It is an album with severe multiple personality disorder, which is definitely not mainstream. If each song was released by a different artist, I don't think they would be seen as non-mainstream.

EDIT:
@Jihad
The other thing about Kabuki-chou no Joou is the Kayoukyouku influence. That sort of pop-Kayoukyoku was unusual at the time and is still uncommon.

@DG
Do you think that I am a suck up? I don't like everything that is introduced to me, but do you think I say I like The Grates just to suck up to you?

[Tokyo Jihad]

Originally Posted by TurtleFu

I think it's that she is just not trying as hard.

That's at least as bad, isn't it? =p

This isn't the first time someone on EMF comes up with the "she isn't interested" theory, and I find that no better of a consolation.

[deadgrandma]

@TurtleFu: maybe what I said got lost from being cold hard text, was kidding and just giving some words of (pretty obvious and applicable to everyone) advice rather than accusing you (just your comment is what sparked me to write it). That's why the ":-p" was there.

I'm on a smart phone so I'm not really rethinking before I post stuff here ;-p

[Inseu]

@Jihad

When I use the term J-pop, there's no negative connotation, just something very catchy and bubblegum. Sure, Ringo sings Kabuki-cho no Jou with confidence and force, and I do marvel at how amazing the song is - I can listen to it forever.

Fans here seem to be fond of bringing out KZK to show how "dishonest" her music has gotten, and they feel that "KZK is cool thinking man's music". Being dense and inaccessible is then hailed as a merit.

For me, accessibility is one of Ringo's major strengths, which means most of her songs are full of rock dynamics, even the ballads are very groovy. On KZK for a brief moment she forgot about the importance of accessibility, that's why KZK is my least favourite of the four solo albums. It's often very exhausting to listen to...so maybe it's not better to be "more honest"...it's not better to be "dark and heavy and distorted and nasty". I'd rather she focus on 3-minute-art-pop perfection and melodious singing, things she's good at.

What happened to "everyone has to have one trashy jpop star"?

Fair enough. I don't have one trashy jpop star though. I just pretend my favourite singers are trashy jpop stars and come up with a bunch of theories to support my own nonsense. I worship them the way a teenage girl worships Justin Bieber.

[deadgrandma]

I dunno, never would have used the word "inaccessible" to describe KZK... This isn't something like Guernica or anything.

Nothing wrong with being "exhausting" if its the right kind of exhaustion. KZK is a satisfying exhaustion, whereas something like Kyouiku is more of an "oww my ears hurt" kind of thing (This again is to blame on 90% bad production, 10% Service. :-p)

[Inseu]

I used it in a relative sense. Casual listeners would easily be overwhelmed by strings, bells and whistles...at least from personal experience. And when I say my least favourite I mean SS is 100 and KZK is 99.9.

Meh, fuck that. KZK is 100 too, it's just that some 100s are larger than other 100s...

SG is also inaccessible not because the songs are not catchy, but because it sounds very busy, and it's hard on the ears for some.

[TurtleFu]

One of the hallmarks of KZK is that it is both experimental and very much a pop album, with hooks and hummable melodies. There are no weird-ass time signatures, no unusual and abrupt key shifts. HF shows how well they translate when re-arranged as a more typical pop or jazz song.
In fact, in terms of songwriting Shouso Strip is largely less accessible, with strange and abrupt codas, unusual song structures, tempo changes, loud-soft switching constantly etc.

Re: merits of breezy pop songs over "art music". I will always say Noudouteki Sanpunkan is one of the best songs Ringo has ever written, simply because it has a great beat, great melody, super hummable chorus, and it's just fun to listen to.

[Nimh]

I think as soon as an artist gets self-consciously self-important, all like "I am only going to do great work on subjects of great concern to humanity".....that artist is DONE creatively.

I mean, if SR got all artsy and declared "I am going to bust my ass creating the greatest album ever composed on the subject of Japan's triple disaster," I'm sure we'd all be chewing our nails off in anticipation.

99/100 chance that album would come out a pretentious piece of shit.

[Inseu]

Originally Posted by Glathannus

I've got close to 200 CDs/DVDs from related artists (musicians Shiina Ringo has actual history with). Without even counting TOKIO (which I'm doing my best to ignore), I know I'm missing at least another hundred releases.

I don't mean to discredit "similar" artists, though. I'm just saying it's very easy for a Ringo-centric collector to run out of money before ever considering any unrelated artists.

Wouldn't you want to collect similar artists first?

I mean if I like Tokyo Jihen, I would look for rock bands fronted by charismatic female singers, like JUDY AND MARY, rather than Shiina Iunpei's R&B dirge. I just can't shell out money for that. It feels weird, as if I have a crush on a girl, but end up also kissing her brother...

Also how much do you enjoy artists related to Ringo? How highly do you regard them? Do you actually find the same thing you enjoy in Ringo's music? Do you collect their music just for completion?

I didn't read all the old posts, sorry if these questions have been asked before...

[deadgrandma]

Originally Posted by Inseu

I just can't shell out money for that. It feels weird, as if I have a crush on a girl, but end up also kissing her brother...

Haha, that's one weird way to put it