Ringo Shiina project I'm trying to start

[oasis_heart3]

And I SWEAR I didn't see your post, Kasanagi. o_o

Originally Posted by Kasanagi

You can get your MIDI's and all, but I don't see anyone with the talent and skills you demand will do anything for you without any incentives, and it don't sound like you will give any creative control to any one joining your project, which is in itself an incentive that some would join a band for.

That's not true at all. I'm not going to be bossy and run everything with a tight fist. The truth is, I'm not very creative with music at all (with the exception of lyrics)...so when I said "I want the songs to sound like the originals", it's because I KNOW how that's supposed to sound; ie: they sound good (otherwise, Ringo would have never released the music to the public. She has a wonderful ear for music. =)

HOWEVER...if someone comes up with a creative remix, or does something "unique" to the song (adding/replacing certain instruments, etc.), then I'm more than happy to hear them out and try their interpretation. Listening to their ideas is the least I can do, and the same goes for any other aspects of the project, like audio mixing, or even the website itself.

(I assume that by "creative control", you meant "making the music their way, with their own style, or even 'expanding' their help in other areas, such as volunteering to help with the site", right?)

And for the record, I'm very good at paying people back -- I've had a lot of people help me over the years, and I always give them some sort of payment as a thank you. That just goes without saying for me...but I understand that most of the world doesn't work that way (ie: if they don't say they'll pay you, then they probably never WILL pay you). I just can't do that right now...but all of the people who've worked with me in the past understood that, and nearly all of them said it was okay if I never paid them (which I'm still going to do anyway, at some point in the very near future)...and I'm hoping I find some people just as kind as before. Those people exist somewhere, I know that...and even if none of those people are at this particular forum, I still won't give up.

And also for the record, I've wanted a MIDI keyboard for a while now, and I've wanted to try and improve my singing (even though my voice isn't too good)...and I DO plan on obtaining those things someday. I just thought that this project would be a good way to meet people far more talented and dedicated in this field, and I could somehow learn from them as well, so maybe someday I can do another simillar project on my own, or at least with more skills under my belt. Utlimately, I thought this project would be fun, and that it was more suited for a group, so I wanted to find people who'd be willing to help out.

[CatchFiveBats]

Although I can't help you (I'm a drummer with limited mixing experience myself, but definitely not enough to get you anywhere), I just want to say that I really respect what you're doing, and want to wish you the best of luck with this. Your determination is refreshing, and you've taken what criticism was thrown at you here in stride, so I think you'll be fine.

Keep it up.

[oasis_heart3]

Thank you very much, CatchFiveBats. I really appreciate what you've said, and I'm grateful for you and everyone else who is interested and believe in this project.

You guys really give me the strenght to keep fighting and to do my very best. So bless you, and everyone else who's supporting me. =)

[badtzmaru]

I support you, too! I would help out if I could do any of the things you need and if I had time. >_< Good luck with this, and I hope you find some people to help you!

[Op2]

Originally Posted by oasis_heart3

Thank you very much, CatchFiveBats. I really appreciate what you've said, and I'm grateful for you and everyone else who is interested and believe in this project.

You guys really give me the strenght to keep fighting and to do my very best. So bless you, and everyone else who's supporting me. =)

[oasis_heart3]

^^ Thank you all so much; you really have no idea what this means to it. <3

I'm definitely still trying to find more people to help out (I've posted for help at more than just this forum. =), so hopefully I'll get more help very soon. But I'm also trying to think of my options just in case no one else does help.

Worst case scenario, I'll have to "create" karaoke myself and sing it myself...and that won't be too pretty. (xD) But hopefully you'll still support me, even then. ^^;

@adrian: That's a really nice pic you posted. I still remember Terri Schiavo; that was such a messed up story, man. And I'm still mad at South Park for "parodying" the whole thing. >(

[Tokyo Jihad]

Adrian: lol wut --and I'd totally rep you but I need to "spread it around." Lame, Glath lets fix that.

[k3nj1kun]

Originally Posted by oasis_heart3

@k3nj1kun: Your post is a bit confusing to me. ^^;

I'm grateful that you want to help, but what can you do exactly? Can you sing? Can you create music? Can you use an audio editor very effectively? You never said what your talent(s) is/are.

Well as far as the actually sound goes, that depends on how good the singer is and how good the MP3s/MIDIs sound. =P

But as far as lyrics are concerned, I try my best to convey the overall message (and some of the style) of the lyrics: if the song is about depression, then my lyrics sound depressed; if she mentions a train, then I also mention a train; if she rhymes the last two words in her song, then I try to do the same thing in English, etc.

I've never been trained in any sort of musical background, but I AM very good with English and writing (I've won awards for my writing, too. =), and I DO sing the lyrics to myself to make certain that it sounds "nice" in English. (ex: If there are too many s's in a line, it can sound pretty bad...even IF the lyrics look great that way. The vocals and lyrics have to go hand in hand, you know?)

The fact that you mentioned "Hikari" and "Simple and Clean" kinda insults me, to be honest. ( ^^; ) I'm insulted because those two songs ["Hikari" and "Simple and Clean"] are TOTALLY unrelated as far as lyrics go, and I really don't know what the #$@? Hikki was thinking/smoking when she made the English "version". I hate those lyrics. And the same goes with "Sanctuary". T__T

(That said, I've also written a few English versions to some of her songs, including "Keep Tryin'". But that's a whole 'nother issue. xD)

Anyway, since you did mention "Simple and Clean", I definitely can see why you'd be worried...but rest assured, my work is NOTHING like that. Here's an example of one song I did ("Ringo no Uta"); I posted the first half of the song below...along with the original Japanese lyrics/translation.

"Ringo no Uta" - The Original vs. My Version (HTML page)

sorry.. i forgot to mention
im studying at the conservatorium of music, sydney - australia

MIDI.. isn't the best kind or 'quality' music
you need real sounds, real performers, and quality instruments.
MIDI.. is just a computer/keyboard that imitates sounds and instruments.

MP3.. on the other hand.. is compressed.. again.. you achieve 'average' sound

maybe to get a better understanding... look into sound recording and things like that.. and you'll get the better picture of how massive your project really is..

yeh.. i read your translation
the lyrics are different? was that your intention?

im afraid that the natural speech patterns of those words don't fit.. you should revise a little bit.
i.e. 'personify' - the second syllable naturally goes up in intonation, it rhymes when you read it out, but in song, it doesn't have the same effect and the speech rhythm is lost.

please consider reading up on writing/setting texts to music. this is actually a hard thing. maybe look at a classical composer, Purcell, or even Schubert.

Don't forget that, Shiina is influenced by DeBussy, Chopin and other greats of the 18th century.
Also, Shiina's love for Enka (Japanese traditional music), the vocal writing itself is not common in our Western Worlds. Look up on some Enka as well.

I acknowledge that you have won Awards for your writing, but when it comes to music, its a different thing. It is treated differently.

If I'm sounding too critical to your liking..
I think you should also realise many people, with experience and training, feel the same way.

Being a composer, I would be very offended if someone took my works and translated it and adapted to their own taste or pleasure. I understand you feel a certain way about the music, as we all do,
but I'm sure you can let the music live its own interpretation. Other words, don't change someone else's artwork.

I'm sorry that's harsh..

please take it the right way..

[Glathannus]

Originally Posted by k3nj1kun

sorry.. i forgot to mention
im studying at the conservatorium of music, sydney - australia

MIDI.. isn't the best kind or 'quality' music
you need real sounds, real performers, and quality instruments.
MIDI.. is just a computer/keyboard that imitates sounds and instruments.

MP3.. on the other hand.. is compressed.. again.. you achieve 'average' sound

maybe to get a better understanding... look into sound recording and things like that.. and you'll get the better picture of how massive your project really is..

yeh.. i read your translation
the lyrics are different? was that your intention?

im afraid that the natural speech patterns of those words don't fit.. you should revise a little bit.
i.e. 'personify' - the second syllable naturally goes up in intonation, it rhymes when you read it out, but in song, it doesn't have the same effect and the speech rhythm is lost.

please consider reading up on writing/setting texts to music. this is actually a hard thing. maybe look at a classical composer, Purcell, or even Schubert.

Don't forget that, Shiina is influenced by DeBussy, Chopin and other greats of the 18th century.
Also, Shiina's love for Enka (Japanese traditional music), the vocal writing itself is not common in our Western Worlds. Look up on some Enka as well.

I acknowledge that you have won Awards for your writing, but when it comes to music, its a different thing. It is treated differently.

If I'm sounding too critical to your liking..
I think you should also realise many people, with experience and training, feel the same way.

Being a composer, I would be very offended if someone took my works and translated it and adapted to their own taste or pleasure. I understand you feel a certain way about the music, as we all do,
but I'm sure you can let the music live its own interpretation. Other words, don't change someone else's artwork.

I'm sorry that's harsh..

please take it the right way..

The things you're saying about MIDI/keyboards are true from like... decades ago. Have you ever seen or heard what modern top-of-the-line keyboards can do? Maybe you should start by taking a look at Jordan Rudess demonstrating some soundbanks. Then there's numerous videogame music composers who still don't use real instruments (though a few ARE using real instruments now), yet on a cheap stereo, you'd never quite know the performance was synthetic. Jeremy Soule is a shining example of this, especially with his Guild Wars soundtracks which branch out into more directions than he'd go with his older stuff (like Morrowind or Neverwinter Nights).

There's no question of whether or not it's POSSIBLE to do most/all the instruments virtually and get QUALITY results in this day and age. The question to ask: is this feasible? Do fan(s) have the money/'connections' and the willingness to acquire such software, and have the mastery to wield it? I suspect the author of this thread is motivated by the possibilities rather than feasibility, which is not necessarily a bad thing, so long as he has the patience and persistence to get what he wants (could be awhile).

I don't think the influences are something he needs to know about, if he's not the one doing the composing/arranging, but I agree that if you overlook influences, you can stray into directions that betray the spirit of the original music.

I also still think it's evil to mess with lyrics, let alone put an emphasis on them. I got somewhat into Hikki after misdownloading (I wasn't going after Hikki at all) a piano-only version of First Love. It's better not to hear any singing at all, than to hear someone else singing it, otherwise I would've never been curious about Hikki's original vocalized tracks.

By the way, the other day (in my line of work), I crossed paths with a violinist who could give Saito Neko a run for his money. I'm going to try and hook up with her if I ever start work on any covers, but she might be too good for me (we're talking world-renown here) to take up her time, just like I might be too good for any unofficial project with emphasis on lyrics...

[Tokyo Jihad]

Originally Posted by k3nj1kun

Being a composer, I would be very offended if someone took my works and translated it and adapted to their own taste or pleasure. I understand you feel a certain way about the music, as we all do,
but I'm sure you can let the music live its own interpretation. Other words, don't change someone else's artwork.

Really? You feel that way. If I could have my real, gut, dream and was in a rock band, if someone wanted to cover my songs in some crazy fashion (as this is essentially) then I'd be totally cool with it. As long as they gave credit that 'hey, i didn't write the song' then whats there to be offended about? At least you made music that was engaging enough to move people into action.