[SR] 2009.06.24 - Sanmon Gossip (CD) [Album]

[HEDOfloe]

i don't mind the PV, but why is there talk of there not have being enough funds put into it? it looks like they did exactly what they wanted to do with it. though this does make me feel as though she's changing who she was because it seems to be that she's catering more specifically to a mainstream audience rather than just having them dig her for what she felt like. i wouldn't say that her catering the fans is hurting the music because she can still write really good songs even if she gives them a more mainstream sound, but i don't dig it too much. i originally liked the video just because it was ringo, it wasn't amazing but it was something different for her and she looked gorgeous, but it really was a typical video and it makes me feel like now she's really making a product out of herself. of course, from how she seems and from what we've been told by japanese speakers here, it also seems to me that she's completely in control of how she chooses to sell her image etc.

still, i'm beginning to feel more and more that she sold out. i really digged all the artwork for the album and the promotional images but that was all because i had already known all the amazing and bizarre things she did that still brought her mainstream success. now after i've taken it all in, i can only imagine what it looks like to either new fans or just the casual fans who wouldn't bother going to a forum about her. she seems to really be going for the Ayu crowd this time. I still like the music so i'm glad about that, and i'm sure she personally likes being all dolled up since i doubt she'd do it if she hated it, but I hope it doesn't get to the point where she begins to lose her credibility as an artist.

[kuro_neko]

whoaaaa Ayu? I don't really think so. I think if I knew nothing of Ringo and I saw the promo for this work I would probably have the reaction I did to when I saw the promo artwork and cover of YUKI's Melancholinista, on which she is topless holding a lamb (you can see her nipple!), drawn of course. She even has similar hairstyle to Ringo! Either way, when I saw it I was intrigued. Nudity doesn't equal sex. I saw it and was just really intrigued by it. It looked very fashionable but artistic. I think Ringo has had the same quality recently. The artwork is certainly eye catching but it doesn't have that polish that you see on similar work by idols that takes it over into that realm of being overtly sexual. Sensual would be the correct word for Ringo. One word I also hear a lot and see a lot of in articles and interviews about Ringo is "erotic" and I think that is definitely true. In the SONGS interview her special guest on night too even commented on this to her face, that the whole project seemed quite erotic to him. Ringo is not sexy, she is erotic. She has a raw sexual edge to her and it comes across here. I don't find her work to be altered in the way you do, I don't think she is trying to reach a new audience, I don't think she makes music even thinking about who will listen to the music outside of her fans. She has enough of a following for her to make whatever she wants and so why would she reduce herself to the level of an idol with no real talent other than a hot body? Ringo is still the same woman inside. She just has fought her battles and taken on the big boys in suits, she is ready to create something more subtle. She writes about what she knows. She has once said that within MM you will find everything from her in her teenage years. SS was a branching out and KSK was, as she said, Shiina Ringo killing Shiina Ringo. At that point, she has said she was ready to be dead at 27 (the singer songwriter we knew as Shiina Ringo). So why did she come back and create SG? Well, I think Ringo is a human and as humans we will always process things from our perspectives. Ringo still has things to say. But her life experiences have changed. She is no longer a rebellious youth, she is a successful artist and mother. Her viewpoint has changed. So the types of stories she wants to share have changed as well. But in a way they still reflect the times. Ringo is very smart in being the pop antithesis, playing with popular music in ways that aren't explored. Fighting fire with fire. So you find yourself nodding along to her rhymes and then suddenly shaken out of it by realizing what it was she just said. I'm often surprised at how different the lyrics are to the music at hand. So 10 years ago she was working with grunge and rock and now in a more R&B and rap oriented age, she is taking that and adding it to her arsenal to express herself.

then again, this album wouldn't have seen the light of day had the fans not asked for more solo work. Most of it we probably would not have heard. She would have shopped it around to other artists, reworked it for Jihen, or simply kept it for herself.

[fluffiethesock]

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

then when another member calls her fierce you say you wanna puke. well, I want to puke *on you* when I read that.

Only because everyone's been throwing that word around since the video came out. I was getting pretty tired of it myself after the second occurrence.

[HEDOfloe]

maybe it was an extreme example to say Ayu, but i didn't say that she degraded her work. it definitely was not cheap, i didn't like it just because ringo's pretty, i'm particularly very picky about visuals moreso than most anything else, (i have very very low tolerance for things which i think look lame). more of my intuition about her appealing to a different audience or even a more specific audience began with the earlier collaborations for others' works. it didn't bug me too much but when i heard the j-pop drama-esque sound of ariamaru tomi (which i still like, btw), i knew that she knew how to cater to a specific audience and she did it.

so, having done that, and seeing the more eye-catching artwork, i began to feel that she was catering to a specific audience. as i mentioned, i don't think it affected the work on the album, the most that made me shudder before hearing it was the idea of a rapper (which didn't turn out bad at all, actually). but then, when you see the video, it does have that very mainstream feel as well, AND since it does have a rapper, it feels to me like one of those typical collaborations rappers and singers do to sell each others albums. and speaking of the artwork, just compare it to her other solo albums. it is extremely drastic and seems like a sign that she has another audience in mind.

but i agree with you, it's not cheap sexuality, either. she does it very tastefully and even plays with it, i love how she uses the guitar and the pictures (and even in the the shun PV) when she plays with the knobs on it or plugs in the line are hilarious to me. and yea, her work has always been erotic. she's always had a very sexual way of singing, i find, especialyl when she exhales on the mic (kill me ^___^).

i'm really struggling with the fanboy in me and the guy that sees any possible harm she might be doing to her career. i love all this stuff, she's hot and she's showing it and i'm liking it, but you know, the mainstream proabbly wouldn't make the distinction between ringo's being erotic or just selling sex. i mean, even my two younger brother's who've seen my wallpapers of ringo and her guitar (from the SG ads) just joke "she's such a slut" because they really don't know her other than what they visually have seen just as any old joe walking into a store and sees her ads will probably mistaken her for any other idol if they didn't know her beforehand, no matter how tastefully she sells it. boobs and legs are boobs and legs.

[kuro_neko]

I think maybe what you might be concerned with is Ringo branding herself, which I have been interested in lately as well. Ringo has really spread herself around. Heck, when you break down Phase 3 Jihen what your looking at are moderately small-time successful musicians using Ringo's platform as a spring board for their compositions. It didn't have the same cohesiveness that Adult and Kyouiku had, probably because it was written with multiple people without any real main insight into a final finished album. It was an album culled from demos. It is funny, cuz they go and say in interviews it was the birth of the band and what most of us see is the opposite.

Ringo is definitely branding herself. She puts her name on something and it sells. She gives songs to artists of varying degrees. I mean, one has to wonder why the producers of a show called Smile about the joy in everyday life and the human condition said "we have to get Shiina Ringo to do the theme song!" It just seems kind of fucked up, doesn't it? People respect her, but in the same way you respect a piece of art by a great artist. You look at it, admire it, respect it, but perhaps you think you wouldn't want it hanging in your house. Now Ringo seems to be accessorized for a larger audience. If you want to complain about SG the types of things I can agree with is that it seems like Ringo is using her name back again on herself, branding herself, ultimately opening herself up to a larger genre, and yes, a larger fanbase. SG feels disjointed because at the end of the day she culled it from demos and ultimately gave 1-2 tracks to a handful of producers to play with. So within it we have a variety of styles. I like the album for that aspect, however. I just don't like this idea of branding. On a related note, in a recent interview she notes that up until this point she hadn't really released an original jazz album, so that is where she went with SG. It makes sense. She wanted Mayonaka on KZK but it didn't fit, so later when she wrote a sequel to it, it ends up on SG. We have gotten a lot of jazz Ringo, but as for original work, nothing. Papaya Mango is a cover, the majority of HF are reworkings of KZK, and Adult has some jazz influences but is hardly a jazz album. This album, as Ringo says herself, is *the* jazz album for her.

Admittedly, I will buy anything with Ringo's name on it within reason. My criteria being Ringo has to have had direct involvement with it and it has to be a music-related release.

[letemp]

i think the PV is nothing special but ringo is gorgeous,
it's funny how u guys prefer old-ringo (her make up is raw, unpolished and greasy!! and her costume was pretty bad like cosplay for attention)
after KZK, her make up and costume gradually improve, and has great style, classy and FIERCE should give credit her for that!

[HEDOfloe]

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

I think maybe what you might be concerned with is Ringo branding herself, which I have been interested in lately as well.

that is exactly what i'm talking about; i guess i wasn't clear enough. i think aside from ariamuru tomi, the wider audience thing hasn't really shown up her music and so i'm fine with that. my problem is with her become a brand as you say, since it really depreciates her whether she makes good music or not. don't get me wrong, though, it's amazing that she can be so in demand as an actual artist and not just an idol, she dominates people; that's a dream come true. i'm just wary as to how far it will go. to this point, i'd say she's handled it well for the most part. the pv is the lastest thing and it doesn't seem very creative, so lets hope there's some more interesting stuff waiting on the DVD and that this was just the hook to get the more mainstream fans .

Originally Posted by letemp

i think the PV is nothing special but ringo is gorgeous,
it's funny how u guys prefer old-ringo (her make up is raw, unpolished and greasy!! and her costume was pretty bad like cosplay for attention)
after KZK, her make up and costume gradually improve, and has great style, classy and FIERCE should give credit her for that!

yea, i feel the same way about ringo in terms of visuals. i think she's definitely been shaping the looks of the girl of my dreams much more after KZK.

[kuro_neko]

did you guys watch SONGS? watching the live version of Ryuukou was almost painful. Mummy-D isn't very camera friendly, nor can he dance, and Ringo herself seemed kind of awkward jumping around and doing those little steps....the fact that those two put on a performance like that on SONGS and the PV came out so sleek and sexy is a HUGE credit to the PV I think.

I think Ringo could definitely benefit from ditching the couture. I liked in cosplay...

[bromithia]

lol, his dancing is so ridiculous in the PV.

[Tokyo Jihad]

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

don't you guys even realize how ridiculous you sound? your going to rag on the PV for seeming shallow and then in the same breath deconstruct Ringo's body. then when another member calls her fierce you say you wanna puke. well, I want to puke *on you* when I read that.

Neko, what the FUCK are you talking about. You're pissed at me because of what other members are saying?

After reading these last few posts, is this even the same Kuro Neko??