Currently Listening To...

[Superficial Fan]

I love this new Yamantaka//Sonic Titan single:

http://pitchfork.com/features/update...a-sonic-titan/

[Inseu]

^Thanks for that mate! It sounds great.

[matan-san]

Originally Posted by Inseu

Pedophile? That's like a forty year old man liking a 5-year-old. These girls are 16-25. Damn fine young women if you ask me. Plus you like Perfume and Kyary Pamyu Pamyu, who are in the same age group :p

Perfume are 24 and Kyary is 20 so they're at least not in their teens. plus AKB48 are constantly displayed as innocent high-school girls regardless of their real age , an image that we all know carries a strong sexual overtones among the average japanese male.
the thing that bothers me the most about AKB48 though is the girls' abusive contracts. just look at that recent controversy with Minegishi Minami who was driven to shave her hair after she was caught having a boyfriend in a violation of her contract and was demoted to trainee status because of that. this incident truly shocked me and it's a sign that something is very wrong with that group and the relationsips between the girls and their management. I can't see how someone can be a fan of a group which obviously abuses it's members like that, I won't be surprised if each girl earns a very small percentage of the group's profit either

Perfume and Kyary on the other hand are not idols at all and their music sound nothing like AKB48 and their sister groups. I see Kyary more as a parody of the idol and kawaii culture, she herself said "I want to present kawaii in a traumatic way". If I want to listen to 80's Jpop I'll just listen to Tommy February6, which is also a parody of idol culture and nails that 80's Jpop sound perfectly.

[Inseu]

Perfume debuted more than a decade ago, when they were 12. Kyary came out two years ago when she was 18. It's offensive to call AKB48 fans pedophiles. Liking an 18-year-old girl is ok, but a 17-year-old is a child and liking her makes one a pedophile? I'm ok if you only like MILFS though. Also keep in mind that East Asian women look younger than they actually are from non-East Asians' view.

As for performing in high-school girls uniforms. They fulfill my fantasy of being with my high school sweetheart. I think actually quite noble of them. Cosplay is quite popular in Japan. It's not a big deal.

During Minegishi Minami's scandal, her teammates actually supported her, but they all know that giving the illusion they're single is what's keeping them in business. And most fans felt sorry for her. She shaved her head because she betrayed her fans. If the girls choose to become idols, they follow their own rules. You cannot just impose your own everyman standard to them. If they want to be normal girls, they can quit any time.

Of course, the girls don't earn much, because they have no creative input. They merely perform the songs and earn a fixed wage. Only top girls who appear in commercials and dramas earn good money. That's why one has to compete with other girls, striving to become more popular.

Surely Perfume and AKB48 sound different, but idol-pop is a genre with many styles, Morning Musume is experimenting with electropop recently, Babymetal is a mixture of trance and metal, MCZ has progressive and operatic elements. Yet they're all idols. If you only enjoy what you consider a parody of J-pop, fine. However, if you get over (or embrace) AKB's image, you'll find some of the catchiest and most energetic pop songs. I've been obsessed with them for 8 months, their songs are timeless.

[TurtleFu]

No. Matan, Perfume and Kyary ARE very much idols. They are! Just because they sing electropop (which, I should remind you, is just pop music with VOCODERS and EFFECTS and BEEP BOOP), doesn't mean they aren't idols. They are presented alongside idols on music shows, their following is within the idol tradition, and it should be noted, they contribute nothing at all to their music: no lyrics, no compositions, no clothing, no choreagraphy. It's 100% controlled by their managment.
They are just as much controlled by their management/producer as any other idol groups. Just because they amp up the weird or artificial doesn't mean they aren't idols.

[deadgrandma]

^ Uh oh, feel the wrath of Turtlefu, Matan :-p

But he has a point, I don't ever really consider Perfume/Kyary anything but idol pop either. Better produced and not as creepy as AKB48 (I'm sorry to Inseu, but nothing you said in defense of the hair shaving incident really convinced me otherwise of the fact that it's FUCKING CREEPY and there seriously needs to be some changes in their management... and a serious look into the kind of fans they're harboring) but Idols nontheless.

But I digress, Matan, you mention Kyary and Tommy February as "parodies" of Idol pop. Now I know I'm gonna do it again but if you haven't heard it already... you need to reach for a little album called SUKI SUKI DAISUKI by Jun Togawa; this is truly the defenition of an idol parody. Tamahime Sama also provides this but with a more avant garde approach, but Suki Suki Daisuki is where she went on a full out agenda against that style of music, and pulled it off incredibly. Just listen to that tongue in cheek cover of Angel Baby, making singing out of tune truly an artform. The title track itself, a masterpiece and a great parody of everything Jpop.

The closest thing we had to a "parody" of modern Jpop was Mariko Goto but now she seems to be swallowed by the very thing she set out to destroy (was a bit disappointed by her latest single, Speed of Sound) and has lost her punk roots. I don't mind, I still dig the majority of what she's released, I just hope she makes her distinction a bit clearer on newer releases.

[TurtleFu]

Words right out of my mouth, DG. You are on point.

I remember from my deep dark days as an idol fan a little group made up EXCLUSIVELY of pre-pubescant girls. Most of them were 10 when the group started. The songs themselves were some generally bland idol pop, but I remember one specific member from the group had several photobooks, filled with bikini shots, butt shots, and one of her licking cream cheese off her finger while looking suggestively at the camera. And the concerts were nearly exclusively attended by adult men. It's extremely creepy, even within the fandom if somebody said they were a fan of this particular girl they would get side-eyed. Unfortunately she was easily the most popular member of the group.
One of the things that really annoys me: male idols actually get to attend college, and get degrees (even though there is PROBABLY some fudging of grades involved...). Female idols are not allowed to learn any valuable skills (one idol in particular scored fairly high on a national exam, and then had to leave the industry so she could go to college), so when they inevitably get too old to be idols, they are left with no option other than to be a housewife.

EDIT: Have you heard of Klaus Nomi DG? I'm not really familiar, but he seems to have been doing what Togawa did: new wave beats, operatic singing, surreal imagery, avante garde presentation. I wonder if she was aware of him (I think they were contemporaries)

[deadgrandma]

Klaus Nomi is a very familiar name... Guess he'll fit alongside Nina Hagen? I'm sure there's a lot of German new wave/avant-garde/whatever-it-is influence in Togawa's music (though I think Togawa really owes a lot of her avant garde ways to Koji Ueno [who needs more appreciation from everyone- it saddens me that such an intersting composer is so overlooked] first and foremost). I will check out for sure. I'm alywas intersted in listening to music weirder than modern music and still older than I am. Cheers for that!

Guess I'll add a CLT

Shonen Homeruns- Sweet Sweet '70

Pre-Halmens (HOME recorded by Koji Ueno!) demo stuff, under the name Shonen Homeruns. I love how much 70s punk influence is in it, I can forgive the sound quality because of it. It's also some of the earliest known recordings featuring future members of many big new wave names of the 80s.

[Inseu]

"Creepy" is a word women and pussies use for everything. :p

Changes in Japanese idol industry will only come when there are positive changes in how Native Americans are treated.

And turtlefu, you use the word "annoy" in every post, why you so delicate?

Awesome stuff

[deadgrandma]

Originally Posted by Inseu

"Creepy" is a word women and pussies use for everything. :p

Ouch, how dare you!... my gender identity is (butt)hurt now.

But in all seriousness, I don't care that you like AKB48... I just find the infamous stigma/rules that the girls have to abide by and sub-culture that comes with it extremely dated, pointless AND well, downright CREEPY :-p

Uggh feel my womanly wrath!

P.S. I still love you :-p