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Old 2014.09.07, 06:39 AM   #21
LoBFCanti
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Originally Posted by TurtleFu View Post
The concert I went to, seemed like it was majority women by a pretty big margin.
I get the sense that she WAS a bit of a has-been but now has a career resurgence due to her drama tie-ins and NIPPON especially.

EDIT: My opinion is that Utada is VERY much a past sort of artist. Especially since she's in a hiatus right now. And Ayumi is not the powerhouse she used to be.
I mean, think about it: how many super-popular artist from the early 2000's are still around just as popular as before?
Beyond the fact that it's true in regards to ever artist of the '96-'06 era (save a few Avex artists), people aren't that acknowledging of it as fans. A lot of people have moved producer roles or joined supergroup units- it's not at like they aren't still very active and present, but only fans know this.

Shiina was so big to me during Jihen, the CM and all the like we saw her in, but to every japanese person I know- she went unnoticed. Someone people not knowing a single Jihen song. They knew Honnou though.

I feel Utada might be a special case- First Love (which is almost my least favorite work from her) is too culturally embedded for her to not be relevant when she decides to come back. I think Utada even thinks this herself, to be honest.
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Old 2014.09.10, 05:10 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Entry№1 View Post
Back when Ringo was first dabbling in big band and jazz music, you had these kinds of musical subversions: "Rinne Highlight" had lyrics from Susanna Hoffs, "Aisaika no Choushoku" was possibly about the repressed rage of a cheated housewife, and not to mention the tongue-in-cheek broadway versions of "Sid to Hakuchuumu" and "Yattsuke Shigoto". Later, with Heisei Fuuzoku, the ironies and critique became more nuanced, portraying exploited and untrustworthy characters in songs like "Sakuran" and "Karisome Otome". Her works had all the defiance and tragedy that can be found in both Enka and hard rock music then.

Now, her work has been skewed more towards overtly sentimental subject matter, even embracing patriotic themes in songs like NIPPON. This is very different from her "Fuck off, G-men, fuck off, しね" days. Even her orchestral works such as HF and SG were at least somewhat subversive or contained elements of social critique in their lyrical character studies. I was hopeful with the announcement of Gyakuyunyuu that we'd finally hear her sing songs like "Cappuccino" and "Private" in the stripped-down rock styles of years prior in all the glory of Ringo's matured voice. With Gyakuyunyuu, I held my breath for what could have been the quintessential feminist accomplishment of Ringo's entire career: a collection of songs written throughout her whole career as a virtuoso singer-songwriter, encompassing the narratives of her as a young woman, a mother, songs written from male perspectives, songs criticizing traditional mores. Gyakuyunyuu could have exhibited Ringo in all her shape-shifting forms, but instead we got her singing falsetto on bubblegum renditions of teenybopper tracks that were less syruppy ten years ago.

I don't want to be someone who bemoans SR's recent works in terms of it not being "rock" enough... I love her broadway and jazz stuff nearly as much. But even with her previous work, there was some element of tension. Artistic achievement is found in the negotiation of harmonies and dissonances. Ideological and conceptually, SR's recent work is extremely safe in all regards. It's all still amazing in its own way (as far as composition or whatever), even I don't find it intellectually stimulating or satisfying. I was impressed with her recent works for Sayuri Ishikawa and Youko Maki, but not much else. The question I am getting at with all this is: how does the music world of Japan view SR nowadays? I'm interested in perspectives in both mainstream and alternative music outlets here. As a white American male, it's very difficult for me to judge the artistic merit of her work, despite having been a huge fan of hers since 2005. My Japanese is limited, and the perspectives of Japanese people on her work is invaluable to me.
I've probably been dismissive and reductive about your perception of SR's music, and I'm sorry for that (but I JCHI). Posters like you who are aware intricacies of SR's music helped me become a fan. Still, your op makes me reeks of the idea that SR is only as important as her agenda and cultural relevance (the next greatest thing) - and so I can't help being defensive. Many of her recent tracks and performances are a lot braver than the on-the-cuff-ly subversive 'Fuck off G-Men'
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Old 2014.09.10, 05:33 PM   #23
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Who cares if she's relevant in Japan, she'll keep making music regardless...

Anyway, new studio album in November according to that site that's always right...
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Old 2014.09.11, 05:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by deadgrandma View Post
Who cares if she's relevant in Japan, she'll keep making music regardless...

Anyway, new studio album in November according to that site that's always right...
You say that and DON'T post a link/source?
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Old 2014.09.11, 06:19 AM   #25
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http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3271318191

It was posted elsewhere before on here somewhere too
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Old 2014.09.11, 10:10 AM   #26
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Yeah, I think we were talking about that article on the 2014 Tour thread. I agree; Ringo is relevant enough to make new music and continue touring. Naturally, her glory days in the mainstream have come to an end. And honestly, if we're talking about how Japan views her NOW, we must first consider how Japan viewed her THEN. A lot of people knew Koko De Kisu Shite and Honnou. A lesser amount of casual music listeners knew a couple of her other singles -- Tsumiki Asobi, Gibs, and Stem. I assume most people didn't check into her beyond that. And she was forgotten by most people who didn't become big fans. I mean, imagine how you would think of Ringo by only hearing Koko De Kisu Shite and Honnou -- ten years ago. Heck, they're so different you may have thought those were different artists singing those songs.

Realistically, there has been a steady decline in sales since Honnou. That's not to say that fans didn't like the newer music. Rather, this is to say that she started falling out of the public's eye after it. As far as Japan's public, Ringo really only had a year or two of mainstream fame. I'd bet Tokyo Jihen boosted her popularity a little bit after KZK. The peak of that popularity, I think, was right after Variety was released. Killer Tune was a moderate hit, wasn't it? But even then, did casual listeners in Japan even realize that the vocalist for Jihen was the girl who wrote Honnou? Now Jihen in gone. And where does Ringo stand? Well, we'll have to see what happens once we get the NEW ALBUM?!
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Old 2014.09.11, 09:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Scribble R View Post
I've probably been dismissive and reductive about your perception of SR's music, and I'm sorry for that (but I JCHI). Posters like you who are aware intricacies of SR's music helped me become a fan. Still, your op makes me reeks of the idea that SR is only as important as her agenda and cultural relevance (the next greatest thing) - and so I can't help being defensive. Many of her recent tracks and performances are a lot braver than the on-the-cuff-ly subversive 'Fuck off G-Men'
Brilliant artists are always relevant, IMO... I've been a fan of hers since 2005 - a lot has changed since then, but she's as enigmatic and skillful as ever. For me, her art is the end, not the means. Even though I'm very socially-conscious, I love her for her work, not for whatever social or cultural good comes from it. I do feel the need to orient myself in relation to her works, and admittedly, I have more difficulty understanding a professional female artist who is not a little outraged than someone who is. I feel like I understood her much better up until about Variety. I've loved most of what she's done even since then, but I'm trying to understand her a little more through posting this topic.
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Old 2014.09.14, 06:53 AM   #28
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The thing about Ringo is that people who don't like any pop music respected her, she was the only modern pop star that a Japanese person in the underground music scene would listen to. Most of my friends from this scene feel the same way I do....they're a lot more hesitant to bring her up and separate her career into OK-Ringo and Not-OK-Ringo. The cut-off time varies from person to person but I think the hipsters have all abandoned her and rightfully so!

She went from referring to us as listeners to calling us fans, and now she addresses us as customers in her interviews.
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Old 2014.09.14, 07:04 AM   #29
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^ I'm sorry, but that just makes me think "BOO FUCKIN HOO" :-p
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Old 2014.09.14, 08:22 AM   #30
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Customers is just euphemism for johns.
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