Ringo Shiina project I'm trying to start

[arutea]

XD it'd be even more interesting if a guy sang some of the songs.

[zach]

Cover Philosophy

My philosophy with covers (which judging from her discography I would say is also Shiina's philosophy) is "if you're going to cover something, do it 1) noticeably better or 2) quite differently." Or in SR's case, 3) both. If people wanted to hear the exact same song, they would just listen to the original.

The difference between a cover band and a cover album is that a cover band is trying to replicate the original so people can comfortably enjoy songs they know. A cover album, on the other hand, was recorded because they artist felt they had a new spin to put on the old tunes. Two approaches: "New spin" is new music, built on a preexisting foundation but ultimately a fresh statement. "Replication" is for cover bands and karaoke bars.

So, your vision involves making Shiina Ringo covers. Which way would you like to cover them? Lyrically it sounds like you're going the "new spin" direction, but musically it sounds like you're headed in the "faithful replication" direction. A confused vision, methinks.

Isn't Re-Translating SR Unforgivable?
(Like Reverse Engineering Software)

I have read this entire thread, and there have been many excellent ideas presented on all sides (except the people that say "what, you wanna make music? go learn an instrument!" ...entirely unhelpful). The fact will always be true that a native speaker will create lines that flow more naturally. I've been making music academically and professionally for years, but when I try to sing Shiina's English songs on my own I always have to check and double check the lyric rhythms, because in many places they syllables don't flow naturally. (Although I have no problem with "nook"... I think it's great because it makes her sound more playful, fits the genre, and rhymes better. A native speaker may just as well have mispronounced that one. "PRO-sti-tewt" on the other hand...)

So some re-lyricizations may be just the ticket to helping a primarily English-speaker-made SR cover album come into being. Which brings me back to my point.

Refining the Vision

We need to clarify, what is the purpose of this project? If it's simply to create a musical "setting" (as "faithful to the original" as possible) in which to place altered lyrics, I'm against it. Shiina Ringo is against it, by virtue of her recorded musical testimony. If it is to create a true SR cover album, I'm all for it, and Shiina-hime seems to agree as well.

By a "true cover album," that means every song is done better or quite differently. I vote that we shoot for quite differently. If we are to stay true to Shiina-hime's own approach to covers and re-using her own music, then any replication of Shiina Ringo's music ought to alter or improve it somehow. In lieu of "improve," let's go for "alter."

In the off-topic section of this forum, you can see we have many instrumentalists here. We have some experienced "audio nerds" (myself and Glath come to mind, possibly there are more).

So, all this said, I like your vision, but it has a problem. Contrary to the opinions of some of your opponents, I feel that your vision is too small. Your vision grew from your belief that lyrics should 1) flow, and 2) not be simple transliterations but translations that retain both form and meaning. Great. But to what end? Countless man-hours of work, maybe money spent, and in the end only you will be proud of it because lyrically it may be satisfying, but musically it will TRY to sound like Ringo and it will fail miserably.

The reason your vision is lacking is because as others (and you yourself) have said, you don't know music. I'm here to offer some musical advice. Forget sounding like Ringo. Let's sound like us. Let's make a true cover album, where we take SR songs and do them differently. Glath mentioned, DIFFERENT KEY + DIFFERENT LYRICS is 100% legal. I have some producing experience (mostly singer/songwriters and demos). I play just about everything and I have a recording studio with pro-level software. I could make sync tracks (with a drum loop for starters) which we could post up as mp3s to get the creative juices flowing. Fans can contribute tracks. All kinds of tracks. Dupes of the original part, simple rhythm tracks, programmed loops, crazy off-the-wall ideas, everything. When we have enough coherent tracks to make a decent mix, I can take the ones that sound good together and paste them together in a way that makes sense, comp the tracks if necessary, and we can have a true cover song with natural sounding English lyrics.

That is my suggested expansion to your vision. Take it or leave it.


For the record

• We are fans. This will be a hobby project. Do not expect to be paid what you're worth, if at all.
• We are worldwide. Do not expect the project to come together in a normal timeframe.
• I'm assuming the lyrics are, in fact, good. I haven't read them and I don't know Japanese so I can't judge. But judging from what I've read about them, they seem to be above board.

Summary

If you want to make a MIDI karaoke-style project with your lyrical contributions, count me out. If you'd like to try to get a fanmade Shiina Ringo cover album underway, using your translations as catalysts for the musically inclined but Japanese-deficient sector of the SR-fanbase (such as myself), I'll help and gladly.

[badtzmaru]

Woow, I'm even more excited for this project now! *_* I'd love to hear a cover album made by EM!! XD

P.S. Welcome, Zach!!

Hehehheh, Glanth. XD

[makenshiww]

aww , that oasis person hasnt showed up since? . maybe he gave up?...

[MBF]

Originally Posted by makenshiww

this project sounds awesome and i would really love to help. I think i can pull of the vocals, but hence the sadness , I am a guy , so too bad =T

yeah, same here


Poor, discriminated guys, aren't we.. ;_;
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I should get back to bed XD

[oasis_heart3]

Nope, I'm still here. I've just been super busy with schoolwork, plus there was a long period where I was sick and our Internet died. x_x;

I'm surprised (and very happy) this topic is still alive, though. ^^


@makenshiww: So what if you're a guy? Based on what Zach said, that could make it work more. ^_~

Do you have some recordings I can hear? I'd really love to hear what your voice sounds like. ^^

@zach: I read your entire post, and I want to thank you for everything you said. (^^) You said right off the bat what I've been attempting to say ( and it took me 5 pages to get it out. ^^; )

I agree with you when you said I was thinking small. A friend of mine even said I was "thinking inside the box"; and after we talked for a while, and I thought about things on my own, I realized that I think "inside the box" everytime I encounter something new. It's because I'm scared that I'll make mistakes, and since I know nothing about it, I feel like most of my work will either be "done in the 'wrong' style", or it'll be "unoriginal, uninspiring, boring, etc.".

But...once I learn it -- either with books, or by being around people who do it all the time -- not only do I usually think "outside the box", I usually run with it and do some unique, if not bizarre things. So that said, I might eventually be skilled -- and confident -- enough to do more than just the lyrics and site design. <3

Another reason why my vision was "small" is because I naturally assumed that money was what everyone wanted and needed in order to do a high quality project (and I can't afford to pay anyone right now)...so in lieu of that, I assumed that a "simple" project (like the one at The Way To Say) would be the only thing I could pull off.

But it seems like Ringo Shiina's fans are of a different, and at times, higher quality. (^^) Most people seem to want something unique, or at least higher quality than "standard MIDIs you can find offline". And a few people (like you and makenshiww) have offered to help me reach that goal, and for that I am eternally grateful. <3

I really would like to work with you zach (and you too, makenshiww!!), so please write back when you can. ^^

[iphreeta]

hi
is this thread still alive???
i've just finished reading every post in here. oasis_heart3, u are really cool to have such ambitious idea. i really like your determination and really hope that this project will be successful one day.
i may not be ringo's biggest fans but i do hear some of her songs and really loved what she's been doin, especially her voice...loved it!!

i am currently taking vocal major in my coll and i wanted to sing some of her songs in my student recital. but i need to have music sheets for my accompanists/bandmates. do you happen to have some of ringo's sheet music or midi files that you can share it with me, please?
in return, i would like to offer my help to you (although i don't have much confidence in myself), like i said, i am a singer(with not much experience) but i would like to volunteer myself to help u sing in your project(IF your project is still ongoing though). but i don't have a recording of my own so can you tell me what should i do if you would accept my help.

so,...hope to hear from you soon.