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Old 2008.05.30, 04:14 PM   #1
jigenbakuda
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Default Speculations on the "real" style of shiina (long long read)

Okay so in my limited time here I have grasped a couple things from some of the long time listeners of shiina. I have also come to some conclusions on my own. Now this this thread could be a total crock of malarkey , or it could be dead on. I have no idea, its just a speculation thread that I was thinking about earlier today.

Now imo the first 2 shiina albums were much more rock. And her second 2 albums were much more non-rock (not including her cover album, which I will talk about as well). Please keep in mind these are relative terms, and should not be analyzed as if the only genre she existed in was rock and non-rock. Now this is excluding tokyo jihen, I'm mainly talking about shiina as an artist.

Some people have different opinions on why, but it is evident that her style has changed in flavor over her career. Some enjoy the change, some dislike the change, some don't care, they are just along for the shiina ride. But I wish to raise the question, why has her style changed? This will be what we are speculating on my friends.

So first off, I will post my theory.

I believe that her style is changing because she is having more freedom with her music (as a seasoned artist), than she was in her beginning days (as a record label's whore, doing whatever the company said she had to to sell records). You may be saying, jigen you are a nut case, but at least let me give some reasons .

Now I will bring my first point up, her demos. Now I am no music industry person and because of that I may not fully understand the purpose of a demo tape. I think a demo tape is something an artist makes up, showcasing their style, and presents it to a record label in hopes that they will like it enough to sign them. If my definition is wrong, or off, then my whole theory is shot to hell, he he he.... Well as I listened to her demos, I noticed, man these are really good, I love you ringo-hime. But then I started thinking why I liked them. So I paid attention to the instrumentation. The majority of the demos are first off piano (keyboard) based, and secondly, sound much much more non-rock than her 1st album. I would say the dominate instrument in MM is the guitar... The percussion parts of some of her songs were of a jazzy or at least of a non-rock nature, something that didn't really come back till KSK . I would say all the songs on MM and SS had either a rock sounding percussion, or a techno one, or none at all. Anyways shiina thought, in her young naiveness, that the best way to represent herself was what she put on her demo tapes. So in listening to what is on the demo tapes and listening to MM, I think the two styles are vastly different. And even the songs put on MM and her later albums, sound much rounder than their sharp album counterparts from the demos. A good number of the songs were built entirely from the keyboard, but in more than half of the songs on MM she has guitar in her songs. Why? If she rarely had guitars in her demo, why have them in her album? Well from all the songs from the demo that did not get picked or released at a later time, most of them were of a non-rock nature (not saying at all that non-rock songs were not picked, just saying that the rock songs were picked in a much higher percentage. Quantity wise, much less rock should have been picked).

Second off, the type of music shiina listened to. In the biography thing on shiina it stated something I thought was very interesting. It was a comparison of shiina and utada. It said shiina listened to black music (jazz) as a youth, then made white music as an artist, whereas utada listened to white music as a youth and ended up making black music (R&B ) as an artist. Although the types of black music were different, its an interesting comparison (although in japan "black music" is an umbrella term, meaning more than just a couple of genres). So to me, the demo reflects that shiina was trying to make it playing some black music ( some R&B stuff and some jazz stuff), but in MM it is primarily rock. So to me if shiina was told that she could not make the type of music she liked and listened to in the beginning of her career, then she would do it when she gained more artistic freedom.

Third off, lets look at her cover album. If we look at a cover album, it not only tells what kind of music the artist listened too, but also how they envision the song. Now it has 2 discs, kameda dics and the shiina disc. The kameda disc is far more rock themed. The shiina disc is far more jazzy/R&Bish. The shiina disc has only 1 rock themed song, and maybe 1 pop themed song... It would seem to me that shiina was beginning to start recording the stuff she wanted to (not just the shiina disc, but the cover album as a whole).


Fourth off, does she main guitar? I get the impression that she is a pianist. I really have no idea what instrument shiina mains. Is she a prince (the artist) type of artist, who has mastery over a large variety of instruments, or is she a 1 maybe 2 instrument artist. I would say she is a pianist from the little I've seen of her. So why in the world would a pianist start playing a guitar and start to rock out with her figurative cock out? I think it was label pressure, not that she didn't like rock, or didn't wanted to get near her guitar playboys, but why in the world would someone who made their whole demo from the keyboard debut with a guitar in her hands? I would say the guitar is more closely associated with her than anything, take her video game character the SEXY I-NO!!!!!
Plus nothing gets me going more than a sweaty shiina playing a guitar, too sexy!!!! But still, is it even an instrument she is proficient with?

Fifth off, look at her b-sides.
Her b-sides seem to be of a lot less rock orientation than her a-sides. Although I am not sure what the purpose of a b-side is, I know her b-sides are less rock. I'm sure if I did the math, rock b-sides would be out numbered by the non-rock ones.

So I just think that shiina change in flavor is much more a representation of her having more creative influence in her music. As I stated before I am a huge fan of her new flavor Oh yea, I said a lot of things without going back and checking if they were true, plus some of my theory is based off of stuff I am not 100% certain of...

Well anyways, I'm going on too long without really going back and patching up the holes in my theory. I am sure it will be shot to pieces, but at least I know I can start some discussion with this one (hopefully, lol). So anyone care to comment on my theory of the real style of shiina?
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Old 2008.05.30, 05:54 PM   #2
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Shiina Ringo's own personal sound can be summed up in Honnou, Tsumi to Batsu, Meisai, and Kokoro. When I hear those songs, I think to myself, "That's Shiina Ringo."

I don't think this is all that complicated of a topic. I'm not buying the label pressure created the rocking Shiina stuff. Shiina Ringo's style is rock ala Muzai. Why? The simple answer is Tokyo Jihen Phase 1. With KSK, it looked like she was moving in a completely different direction with her music. She could have continued to move in that direction, but instead chose to assemble her dream band. A rock band that sounded somewhere between MM/SS and KSK. SR herself has talked about how she had always planned on forming a band since the start of her solo career. Tokyo Jihen Phase 1 is that band and the sound that she wanted. She wouldn't go back to something she was "pressured into" if she didn't want to.

The current sound that some of us dislike is more from the rest of the band and doesn't really reflect Shiina Ringo's style. Adult was the idea of Kameda and you know who was responsible for Variety. HF was just a collab with a friend. Every artist needs to rest and experiment a little before getting back to who they are. Sugizo is the perfect example of this. Much of his solo material was experimental before he got back to his roots in a new band.

I also feel you are discounting the rest of the influences in her life. Yes, she was influenced by the jazz and stuff her father listened to, but she was also influenced by other music in her teenage years. Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots influenced her just as much. In fact, she incorporated three STP songs into the lyrics of the English MarunoSadi demo and she still in the song during lives. I find that to be more telling than recording a demo with a keyboard (which isn't unusual at all for artists).
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Old 2008.05.30, 06:07 PM   #3
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oh, Jigen. Jigen, Jigen, Jigen. I admire the effort, and theres some who definitely agree with your hypothesis.

howevva

You have quite a number of factual missteps that totally nail you.

First off, Shiina was really more of a early 90's pop-RnB girl. Certainly there was Jazz influence in her life no doubt. But from the bio that you reference it puts the emphasis on the RnB factor (Shiina infamously proclaiming her desire to be Mariah Carey's back-up singer.)

Second: Theres no "Shiina" disc. Theres the Kame and Mori disc named after the producers of each disc.

Thirdly: I wouldnt say shes all that great at either instrument , but she less often plays keys/piano live. (And I don't think she plays either on record frequently)

For clarification on B-sides,theyre just songs that weren't good enough for the album or didnt "mesh" with the other album tracks (the latter reasoning, I often find totally bogus. Thats why you get great tracks like Pinnochio casted into obscurity.) So yeah thats where some songs that have influentially "expansive" ideas sometimes wind up, like "Memai."

Now then, lets ignore these addressed underminings and address your thesis. First off, your title is a total trap and you know it. Yes Shiina's an artist, blah blah,different backgrounds, synergy, all that crap. But here's the big issue, if Shiina is allgung ho on this "nu-Shiina" shitick, why does she have none of the heart, conviction,and emotion of her earlier works? KZK isn't often considered nu-Shiina,though it could be. My reasoning for it not being so is because there is that same passion behind it as her two previous works. And no ones going to argue that, I don't think.

Jihen on is where it gets hazy. Kyouiku was certainly mixed in fan reaction. It was missing "something." Then Dynamite Out came and everyone heard the album for the first time on that day. So kyouiku got the pass on DO's vouch to be regarded with the rest of Shiina's works. In DO for the first time we really saw Shiina ALIVE on stage, the band worked, it sold everyone on the album we were mixed about. Then comes Adult and we're definitively in "nu-Shiina" territory. Some people hated it, some people loved it. Some people warmed up to it, some people grew cold to it. For the first time, I think we saw some kinda "half-assed" songs. "Yukiguni" was a self-cover from KZK practically. "Kenso Naoshi" for the first time it felt like Shiina pre-premeditatedly sat downsaying "I'm gonna write a kinda bossa-nove style song" rather than doing her thing and "discovering" one.

However, Adult has plenty of quality Shiina tunes in there too. Even Yukiguniis widely liked, and its still a good song in its own right. But after Adult is exceedingly difficult to say Shiina has that same drive she had as late as '05. Shes written 4-5 songs since Adult that we know of? (excluding Tametabako) In the Spa&Treatment vid she looks like shed rather die on stage than be there and perform -- lets not forget, rehashes and Variety.

Not toomany people complain at their core "Oh its the style I dont like." It might tend to overlap that way, but ultimately no one complained about Rinne Highlight, or the Mayonaka single.What some of us complain about is the pervasive lifelessness Shiina has been exuding since the end of 05.

Maybe the reason Dynamite Out was so great was because Shiina performed her entire soul out there and henceforth has been bereft.
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Old 2008.05.30, 08:00 PM   #4
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He he, you two got me, but I did accomplish 2 of my goals. 1 to stir up some conversation in the main forum and to make a theory for myself on shiina as an artist. I was randomly thinking this in the morning, listened to a couple songs then made my theory. As expected my theory has been torn to shreds. Maybe someone else will have comments for it I really enjoyed reading both of your comments now motto motto motto, I need more comments. If I would of spent a week on my theory instead of a couple of hours, maybe could of have some better points to discuss, but alas I didn't, he he... gao! (air reference..sorry)
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Old 2008.05.30, 08:04 PM   #5
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Maou and I have been doing this for years now
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Old 2008.05.30, 09:26 PM   #6
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There's "Shibuya-kei" and there's "Shinjuku-kei," and never the twain shall meet.
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Old 2008.05.31, 09:22 PM   #7
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I actually somehow think that the recent moves of Shiina is not all she wished for - i.e. behind them there is a conspiracy! Shiina is mentally controlled by the others. It's not that she's mesmerized or has undergone some science-fictional treatment, but some very influencial people around her has persuaded her to change her previous direction. As SR fans we all know that she's actually a very sentimental person (not really the kind of 'queen' who splashes her ego in everyone else's faces), so she might be really easily inclined to another person's idea.

The question is, who is the person that changed SR? It was told by uwasa that SR had a new boyfriend (RIZE's drummer), will he be the one?
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Old 2008.05.31, 09:40 PM   #8
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As for her early musical influences, there's something you missed in her early demo - the live takes in Demo 3. Wow, they're rocking off the roof. I subscribe to that SR's rock tunes in her first 2 albums is not more of a commercial move. it is more the need of herself. But her difference from the other rockers is that her musical influence is not limited to rock - it's by far wider than just rock. That gives her songwriting very unique sense of melody.
Instrument-wise, Shiina is of the typical "Jack of all trades, master of none" kind. She plays various musical instruments (piano, guitar, bass, drums, koto, shamisen...), but excels at none (a bit better on piano though). That also influences her musical tastes. She knows those musical instruments, but not into them. She's into how to make balance out of them. That's why her music shows a very fusional taste.
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Old 2008.06.01, 07:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Canto View Post
It was told by uwasa that SR had a new boyfriend (RIZE's drummer), will he be the one?
Jonny? Any insight on this one?

Good posts Canto. If it is brainwashing from some shitty boyfriend. She needs to drop that zero and get herself a hero
/waves finger in "S" formation
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Old 2008.06.01, 08:04 AM   #10
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@Canto
Is she really the type of person that will try her best to incorporate other's ideas (even if it means sacrificing some of her own), just to show them, hey guy I like you? And for the record, when I meet shiina, I will mesmorize her... Or resort to the chloroform So I am hoping she is easily suggestible...

No I didn't forget demo 3 where she was rocking the roof off. I just said there is more non-rock stuff in the demos. I just said the non-rock outweighs the rock. I just thought 9at the time) that if she made a demo with more non-rock songs, she would be presenting herself to the company as a non-rock artist Or at least a rock/other artist, rather than a rock artist.

Ah I see so she is a jack of all trades? In this one kuki interview video thing, I saw her play the piano... oh the chord change made me wet myself a little. Her composition skills are honed without a doubt. She is always impressing me with her cord changes. But the fusional quality of her sound... Man I love it so much. I usually dislike the simple chord progression of most rock I heard before, but her brand... her brand of rock is so sublimely excellent... Well more generally her brand of music is sublimely excellent.

@secret of the nimh
What is the difference between shibuya and shinjuku kei? And why do I not understand your comment at all? Am I too simple to understand the comments from the secret of the nimh?? Could you please explain the comment more, so that the lowly jigenbakuda could hopefully gain some insight...?
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