Created an account just to say this:

[deadgrandma]

^ LOL, soooo brave.

[Tokyo Jihad]

Its good for what it is, even if it's not the best on the album.

@ TurtleFu's thoughts on SS: I think SS really suffers when you hear KZK first. Otherwise it just sounds like "half way between MM and KZK," which it literally is. But really what gets lost is the jump from MM. You miss Shiina growing as an artist, handling her medium. Of course with KZK already in your mind, you've already heard further artistry and mastery so SS sounds just like another conventional album with some noises. It's so much more.

[so_cold]

Those noises are what I like in music .

Well I started out with SS and KSK anyway, after a period of listening to Honnou, La Salle, the Yattsuke Shigotos, Identity, Ringo no Uta and Shoujo Robot and I can't imagine any other two starter albums...

Whenever KZK was experimental in a way I didn't get initially, I could go back to SS which sounded more "fun". I like a degree of experimentalism mixed with a degree of pop sensibility, so those two were perfect starter for me, and completely blew my mind. Then gravitated towards the B-sides which are at a similar level of experimentation.

MM, represented by its easiest to find song on YouTube Koko de Alanis Morisette looked like it was going to be more straight pop-rock so not worth the costs of shipping, TJ made no impression on me whatsoever and HF I was in denial about it actually being her... But after the entree of SS & KZK and getting used to her sound, I was able to appreciate those releases I originally sort of wrote off (Variety and later TJ aside).

If you don't start out by immersing herself in her original solo sound, you miss out IMO big time, and that feeling is the best present you could give anyone in music. Kyoiku and Adult are great, but much more conventional.

Originally Posted by deadgrandma

I don't know what kind of music background you come from, if you like rock then you'd prob be in the same boat as many people here and prefer the older stuff. If, like me, you are tired of rock and trying not to like the "mainstream", then you will probably enjoy the newer stuff a whole lot more. Not saying its what most people would define as pop, but it is fairly poppy. Which I have no problem with.

*shock reply*: If you're tired of rock and the mainstream, why would you prefer Dai Hakken (so far) or Variety and Sports, which are ... (drumroll) ... mainstream rock?

Fun thing about Koko de Kisu Shite: you can hear the girl who loved 90s R&B in it, in fact you can with all of MM. What other kind of singer sings "I feel so nice 'cause you are with me~~~ now~" like that?

[deadgrandma]

I think you read what I meant wrong. I said I'm tired of trying NOT to listen to the mainstream on purpose, for the sake of having net-cred (you know, I've given-up on being a music Nazi- no longer scared to listen to Ayumi Hamasaki for example). I guess I should have wrote "If, like me, you are tired of rock and trying not to like the "mainstream" as "If, like me, you are tired of rock and tired of trying not to like the "mainstream". The two tireds would have made it clearer.

I also did not say what I prefer either when it comes to TJ or SR. I prefer all of it. I was just trying to give advice to OP for which way to delve into it.

And yes, the new music is pop rock, but its still got its own brand that is distinctly Tokyo Jihen. And I like it.
Sure, you can argue this and show me some bands that are supposedly similar (which many people have), but it still won't be Ringo.

Sorry if that came off catty, just you brief read the original post I think :-p

[kuro_neko]

also, Utaite Myouri also gets unfairly skipped over when talking about Ringo's solo work, perhaps because of the covers, but the fact that she made it AFTER SS and BEFORE KZK shows how deliberate her sound on SS and KZK were.

I had the fortune of becoming a fan before KZK was released and so I was able to hear each album as it was released and I can say that KZK took the longest for me to digest, but it has had the longest staying power. I've had my ups and downs with MM and SS. MM is really what created her career and SS really revolutionized what was considered mainstream pop in Japan. KZK was kind of her signing her death warrant in a way and she directly acknowledges that, but she disappeared to have a baby out of wedlock, released a double cover album to make her label happy, and then remerges with this album that she created with a total of maybe 3 people every seeing during production. They were pissed.

I think all that is still in Ringo, you can hear snippets of it when she composes for other bitchy solo female artists (chiaki, PUFFY etc), but on a whole I think since her own music and TJ's music remains drastically changed from MM and SS, and given her recent statements, this has been a very conscious decision.

I firmly believe we will get another KZK-ish album before we get another MM or SS. SG was her awkward 4 month attempt at it. I think we write it off so quickly but we have to remember she recorded SG in a matter of weeks after fans requested new solo music at Ringo EXPO. Most of the music on the album was written separately, potentially without the intention of ever being used on another solo album, and potentially as b-sides to earlier work that were never used. If Ringo actually sat down and took the time to write a new cohesive work for herself as a solo artist and not mine her back catalogue of unused work I think we'd be looking at something closer to KZK more or less.

[justriiingo]

I think it's a shame that KZK has to automatically be "the greatest".

I personally do not think so.

[Carlx]

Originally Posted by deadgrandma

Sure, you look at the other music they listen to (apart from Glath, cause he seems to keep quiet about it), and it might be good, but its typical good, and while I appreciate the music for what it is, I just don't feel it. Not a fucking thing. It's too safe and sterile. And I'm sure they feel the same way. Music is far too individual.

Even if I enjoy the most visceral and subjective (I emphasize the italic) attempts at music, which is why I loved the Jun Togawa stuff you showed me, I listen to safer and easier-to-get-into music too. I admit the second group is what I'd usually show people (that are not familiar with the music I'm more into) whenever they ask me for a recommendation.

Originally Posted by kuro_neko

If Ringo actually sat down and took the time to write a new cohesive work for herself as a solo artist and not mine her back catalogue of unused work I think we'd be looking at something closer to KZK more or less.

I still think the songs in Sanmon Gossip might be too diverse but still fit and can coexist under the overall crazy and messed up feeling of the album, being Shun the irony between everything, the backbone that holds up the chaos around.

I'm not automatically stating that I like all of the song, which I honestly don't. I'm defending the methodology, the overall plan if ever there was one.

[deadgrandma]

I like Sanmon Gossip, it is one of the best flowing albums I have heard. It's like Onslaught, Shun, Onslaught. Which is very very cool. (which is basically what you said)

And yes, on another note, to get into Togawa is not an easy task :-p But I wouldn't go back.

[TurtleFu]

Wait, people here don't like SG?

I love that album! I've listened to the whole thing several times!

Also: As far as I know, Shiina has never just sat down and written an entire album. That is not how albums are made. As shown by Yattsuke Shigoto (rock) predating KZK-ver., Shiina always takes songs she wrote for other reasons and finds some way to fit it into the album.

SG is really good, and I can't believe that some people don't think it is up there with the rest of her solo work.

[so_cold]

Originally Posted by deadgrandma

Sorry if that came off catty, just you brief read the original post I think :-p

I apologise myself, old chap. That'll teach me to do this without thinking .